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MatPlus.Net Forum General Construct the longest ser-x with a Black homebase
 
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(361) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Saturday, Apr 23, 2022 06:52]

deleted
 
   
(Read Only)pid=23150
(362) Posted by Joost de Heer [Saturday, Apr 23, 2022 15:49]

@(359) Two promotions might work with h2 on f2 for a ser-r=22.
 
   
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(363) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Saturday, Apr 23, 2022 16:51]

@(362) I do not think it will work. The problem is that d pown will promote to wBf8 and the other f pown will promote to wR on h8 and then through h7-d7-d3-b3 shorten solution. So I abandoned idea of two promotions. However my ser-r=25 (or one less move ser-r=24) may be correct. Who knows. I am running Popeye since 7AM to try to prove that ser-a=>b25 is correct but it looks like it's mission impossible to test this. The problem is that white has a lots of extra moves to play and that creates gazillion combinations with 11 white pieces on the board. However I do like this position because 10 out of 11 white pieces can play moves in the initial position. Only wPb2 is blocked but even this pown will play move in the solution.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=23152
(364) Posted by Joost de Heer [Saturday, Apr 23, 2022 19:23]

Miodrag, because the f-pawn can go through e7 on its way to f8 you win a move (that's why it's a ser-r=22 and not a ser-r=23), so the cook with Bf8/Rh8 won't work.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=23153
(365) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Saturday, Apr 23, 2022 20:05]

@(364) You are right, it looks like that position works. Anyway I think that ser-r#25 might be correct too.

Anyway I'll give this position just in case that it turns out that ser-r=25 is C-.

Joost/Misha
(= 9+16 )

ser-r=22 (C?)

In this position the determination of moves is OK (ser-a=>b22 is C+). However it still does not means that problem is correct. It's possible that there is some other final position that has a cook.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=23154
(366) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Saturday, Apr 23, 2022 20:10]

(= 10+16 )

ser-r=26 (C?)
 
   
(Read Only)pid=23155
(367) Posted by Dragan Stojnić [Saturday, Apr 23, 2022 20:11]

(365)Rc1 instead Sa1, and 23 moves...if it possible becuse cook...
 
 
(Read Only)pid=23156
(368) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Saturday, Apr 23, 2022 20:30]

There are so many possibility with this stalemate position. Here is another attempt for 27 moves:

(= 10+16 )

ser-r=27 (C?)

or

(= 10+16 )

ser-r=27 (C?)

Just in case that wPa6 creates a cook. Although it looks to me that there are less chances for a cook with a wPa6 but who knows. Perhaps white has enough moves to move all of his pieces to the upper left corner of the board. But generally I think that there are bigger chances for a correct position when white has to group a lot of pieces to the bottom part of the board.
 
   
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(369) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Saturday, Apr 23, 2022 20:49]

@(367) That might work but then there are more possibilities for a stalemate because wQ can go to a1 and wR to a2. If there is some other way to shift pieces. That's why I put wSa1 in the final position. It's interesting with this stalemate position that none of the white pieces can swap places (with an exception of two wRooks on b2 and b3). That way there are less chances for a cook.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=23158
(370) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Saturday, Apr 23, 2022 20:52]

Maybe this one is correct too;

(A)
(= 9+16 )

ser-r=28 (C?)

or

(B)
(= 10+16 )

ser-r=28 (C?)
 
   
(Read Only)pid=23159
(371) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Saturday, Apr 23, 2022 21:37]

(= 10+16 )

ser-r=29 (C-)

I found a cook. I'll replace this one.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=23160
(372) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Sunday, Apr 24, 2022 11:25]

(= 10+16 )

ser-r=29 (C-)

This one is also cooked. Perhaps ser-r=28 is correct. Problem with ser-r=29 is that d-pown promotes to white knight on b8 and then through d7-c5-b3-a1 brings knight to a1. The white rook from d5 goes to c5-c3-b3 and it's the same number of moves like in the intended solution but now there is no determination at all.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=23162
(373) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Wednesday, Apr 27, 2022 00:15]

It's time for a 13th interim balance. [Edit 2022/05/11 06:50]

It's hard to find the current record in section Ser-s= . It might be (113).
Several attempts surpass his problem but the might be cooked as well.

New record in section Ser-r= .


Current records are:

Ser-# ...11 ........... (39) Arno Tüngler (starter)
Ser-= ...19 .......... (349) Arno Tüngler / Michael Schreckenbach
ser-s# ..17 .......... (124) Frank Richter
ser-s# ..17 .......... (128) Michael Schreckenbach
ser-s= ..22 .......... (113) Michel Caillaud after D. Stojnić and M. Mladenović (C?)
Ser-r# ..11 .......... (348) Michael Schreckenbach
Ser-r= ..31 .......... (377) Michel Caillaud (C?)
Ser-!# ..14 .......... (325) Michael Schreckenbach / Frank Richter
Ser-!# MMM 16 .. (343) Michael Schreckenbach
Ser-!= ..26 .......... (118) Dragan Stojnić (C?)
Ser-h# .KNC 11 .. (42) Michel Caillaud / Arno Tüngler
Ser-h# .. 15 ........ (222) Arno Tüngler / Miodrag Mladenović
Ser-hs# .13 ........ (331) Dragan Stojnić / Miodrag Mladenović (C?)
Ser-hs= .18 ........ (202) Miodrag Mladenović / Arno Tüngler (C?)

Everybody is invited to surpass one of the entries or to cook one marked C?.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=23170
(374) Posted by James Malcom [Wednesday, Apr 27, 2022 20:06]

I've slightly altered the thread's title to reflect where the forum has herded it.
 
   
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(375) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Thursday, Apr 28, 2022 20:46]

Solution of (370 A)
1. g4 2. g5 3. g6 4. gxh7 5. hxg8B 6. Bh7 7. Bd3 8. Bc4 9. Ba2 10. Qc4 11. Bb4 12. Ba3 13. b4 14. Rb2 15. Ra1 16. Bb1 17. Qa2 18. Kc4 19. d5 20. d6 21. dxc7 22. cxb8R 23. Rxc8 24. Rc7 25. Rxd7 26. Rd3 27. Rdb3 28.Kc3 b5#

All entries of the record list and (131) can be seen and autoplayed in the PDB:

https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=probid%3E%27P1400890%27and+probid%3C%27P1400973%27and+CREATIONUSER+%3D%27jenkner%27%0D%0A
 
   
(Read Only)pid=23182
(376) Posted by Michel Caillaud [Wednesday, May 11, 2022 23:07]

(370 A) is cooked :
1.g4 2.g5 3.g6 4.g×h7 5.h×g8=B 6.Bh7 7.Bd3 8.Bç4 9.Ba2 10.Kç4 11.d5 12.d6 13.d×ç7 14.ç×b8=Q 15.Rd1 16.R×d7 17.Rd3 18.b3 19.Qa1 20.Rb2 21.Bb1 22.Qb×a7 23.Q7a2 24.Bb4 25.Ba3 26.b4 27.Rdb3 28.Kç3 b5=

(370 B) also is, in a different and shorter way :
1.Kç5 2.Kb5 3.Q×ç7 4.Q×b7 5.Qd5 6.Qh5 7.ç4 8.Rç3 9.Rb3 10.Rb4 11.Ra1 12.Ra5 13.g4 14.g5 15.g6 16.g×h7 17.h×g8=B 18.Bh7 19.Bç2 20.Ba4 21.b3 22.Bh4 23.B×é7 24.Bç5 25.d5 26.d6 R×h5=

Another rendering with a similar stalemate as the one in (370 B)'s cook

(= 9+16 )
ser-r=29
1.b4 2.b5 3.b6 4.b×ç7 5.ç×b8=B 6.Bf4 7.Sé5 8.ç4 9.ç5 10.ç6 11.ç×b7 12.b×a8=R 13.R×a7 14.R×d7 15.Rd4 16.Ré4 17.d4 18.Bé1 19.a5 20.a6 21.a7 22.a8=R 23.Ra6 24.Rh6 25.R×h7 26.Rh4 27.Rg4 28.Bh4 29.g3 Qd5=
1 move can be added with a wBf3 (for 16.Bd5 included) but this uneconomical "one piece for one move" is justified only for a record and I believe there are more promising schemes for a record...
 
   
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(377) Posted by Michel Caillaud [Wednesday, May 11, 2022 23:17]

Here is a scheme with more moves :

(= 11+16 )
ser-!=31
1.Bç2 2.a4 3.a5 4.a6 5.a×b7 6.b×ç8=R 7.R×ç7 8.Rç×d7 9.ç7 10.ç×d8=B 11.B×é7 12.B×f8 13.R×f7 14.é7 15.Rh6 16.f6 17.Q×h7 18.Q×g8 19.R×h8 20.Bh7 21.Kç2 22.Kd3 23.Ké4 24.Kf5 25.Kg6 26.K×g7 27.Rg6 28.g4 29.Bf4 30.Bh6 31.g5 !=

We get a ser-r=31 by adding a wSb6 for 31.g5 a×b6=
 
   
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(378) Posted by Arno Tungler [Thursday, May 12, 2022 06:16]

Great achievemnet, Michel! And you have still some open resources with one or even two knights...
This also opens already possibilities for a "real" series-reflex-stalemate as you could imagine, for example with a wS on a6, wQ on e4 and another start a reflex stalemate by White like Qxa8=. But that would really need time!
 
   
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(379) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Thursday, May 12, 2022 22:14]

It's time for a 14th interim balance. [Edit 2022/05/16 22:54]

It's hard to find the current record in section Ser-s= . It might be (113).
Several attempts surpass his problem but the might be cooked as well.

New records in section Ser-r= and Ser-!= have been cooked.
So the old ones were restored.
It should be possible to find a longer ser-r= .

Current records are:

Ser-# ...11 ........... (39) Arno Tüngler (starter)
Ser-= ...19 .......... (349) Arno Tüngler / Michael Schreckenbach
ser-s# ..17 .......... (124) Frank Richter
ser-s# ..17 .......... (128) Michael Schreckenbach
ser-s= ..22 .......... (113) Michel Caillaud after D. Stojnić and M. Mladenović (C?)
Ser-r# ..11 .......... (348) Michael Schreckenbach
Ser-r= ..17 .......... (273) Joost de Heer (C?)
Ser-!# ..14 .......... (325) Michael Schreckenbach / Frank Richter
Ser-!# MMM 16 .. (343) Michael Schreckenbach
Ser-!= ..26 .......... (118) Dragan Stojnić (C?)
Ser-h# .KNC 11 .. (42) Michel Caillaud / Arno Tüngler
Ser-h# .. 15 ........ (222) Arno Tüngler / Miodrag Mladenović
Ser-hs# .13 ........ (331) Dragan Stojnić / Miodrag Mladenović (C?)
Ser-hs= .18 ........ (202) Miodrag Mladenović / Arno Tüngler (C?)

Everybody is invited to surpass one of the entries or to cook one marked C?.


All entries of the record list and (131) can be seen and autoplayed in the PDB:

https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=probid%3E%27P1400890%27and+probid%3C%27P1403155%27and+CREATIONUSER+%3D%27jenkner%27%0D%0A
 
   
(Read Only)pid=23227
(380) Posted by Arno Tungler [Monday, May 16, 2022 19:12]

(377) is still cooked:
1.Bc2 2.a4 3.a5 4.a6 5.Qb5 6.Qxb7 7.Qxc7 8.Qa5 9.c7 10.cxd8=B 11.Bxe7 12.Bxf8 13.e7 14.Rdg6 15.Rxg7 16.Rxg8 17.Qe5 18.Qxh8 19.Kb2 20.Kc3 21.Kd4 22.Ke5 23.Kf6 24.Kg7 25.f6 26.Bxh7 27.Rg6 28.g4 29.Bf4 30.Bh6 31.g5!=
 
   
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MatPlus.Net Forum General Construct the longest ser-x with a Black homebase