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MatPlus.Net Forum General Batumi congress agenda
 
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(21) Posted by Neal Turner [Saturday, Sep 16, 2023 22:03]

This whole conversation is very silly - have you not got any problems to compose?
 
   
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(22) Posted by Kevin Begley [Saturday, Sep 16, 2023 23:22]

I tried to focus only on the board, but this thread made me realize that the chess pieces should really put on some clothes.
How did I never notice this indecency before?
 
   
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(23) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Sunday, Sep 17, 2023 00:19]

As far as I understand, relations between WFCC and FIDE are currently positive. So far, we have not had any complaints due to non-compliance with the Code. But I agree with others who say that the situation can change at any time. I think there are bigger dangers than “dress form”.

Most sports organizations (including local federations) have their own codes of ethics. If problems arise, the first step is to contact the local ethics commission. I believe that if WFCC wants to remain an independent organization, it should have its own code of ethics.

Is it written anywhere that an affiliated organization becomes subordinate to FIDE? I did not see. For example, ECU is a FIDE affiliated organization, but at the same time an independent organization governed by its own statutes. Its decisions do not always coincide with FIDE's decisions.

I think the FIDE Code should only apply to events organized under the auspices of FIDE. WFCC have only one such tournament - FIDE World Cup. WCSC and other tournaments are held under the WFCC rules.

 QUOTE 
I fail to understand the empire analogy...
I'd like to better understand your point.
Can you please elaborate what precisely you mean to convey by this analogy?

My analogy was in response to a particular comment. It is not about the relationship between chess play and chess composition. I think the author of the comment understood what I meant. I think most colleagues from European countries also understood me. It is difficult to explain this to people from further countries, who do not understand what is happening in Europe today. Unfortunately, one former empire is trying to regain its former empire's borders by occupying territories from neighboring countries. Its goal is also to control international sports federations and, through them, influence the related organizations. Therefore, we must be vigilant so that this does not happen to WFCC.
 
   
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(24) Posted by Joose Norri [Sunday, Sep 17, 2023 01:26]

Viktoras: "Is it written anywhere that an affiliated organization becomes subordinate to FIDE? I did not see."

Yes it is written the in the Code of Ethics, I quoted it in my first post.

But this is far more fundamental than whether you can solve in your underpants or have a glass of Whisky. This was what I was trying to ask in the original post: do people know the history of the FIDE code of Ethics. It is a very sad history; I can write a short history of it, it takes a few weeks naturally.

It all started with the Ricardo Calvo case in 1986-87, there was no code back then, the general assembly made the decision. Then they started threatening all journalists with legal procedures, if they made chess "in disrepute", I think there is something along those lines still. (I haven't checked, I have used too much mental energy over the decades to bother anymore.) Truthfulness was never mentioned.

But even this is unimportant. It's just that if the WFCC is happy to by affiliated to FIDE, then I am afraid they implicitly give away substantial rigths.
 
   
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(25) Posted by Joose Norri [Sunday, Sep 17, 2023 01:42]

Contrary to what Kevin wrote, the FIDE is indeed an empire that tries to conquer the planet. It has taken a turn much for the better. Let's hope it stays that way.
 
 
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(26) Posted by Kevin Begley [Sunday, Sep 17, 2023 01:47]

Once again, you surrender no rights if you always have the option to secede from FIDE. That's just a fact.
No empire allows the periphery to banish the central authority from a disputed land (such an allowance would instantly dissolve all pretense of a central authority), so this analogy is nonsense.
That's probably why nobody can justify the analogy (except to say, you will not understand the analogy unless you understand the analogy a priori).

The empire analogy is too complex to explain to a fairy proofgame composer?
Is it beyond your vocabulary?
It's rare I encounter a concept that is so difficult to explain (outside of my hobby of reading about quantum physics).
Now, I'm really interested!

Maybe FIDE is a quantum empire. Is anybody working on quantum fabrics? Schrodinger's leg razor?

Further, secession from FIDE is an extreme measure which is likely not even necessary to resolve this virtual matter (note: it isn't even a real matter, because FIDE's dress code has never been imposed upon solvers).

If you have problems with FIDE's code, negotiate with them in good faith.
Don't bitch about them being your oppressor.
The quest for victimhood is your real oppressor.

Calling FIDE an occupying empire is the opposite of what you do when you want to resolve the matter -- especially when you can't show that FIDE ever oppressed you, you can't show that FIDE will ever oppress you, and you have not even established that FIDE is proper authority to hold accountable.
Are you certain WFCC leadership agrees with you? Maybe they agree with FIDE about dress code.
Are you certain the majority of solvers agree with you?
Are you certain the majority of problem chess enthusiasts agree with you?
Where is your polling data?
Where is the petition asking WFCC to negotiate this dress code with FIDE?

If you're serious about resolving this, you might better demonstrate that by using a less ridiculous analogy, and by seeking to first establish which party (or parties) stands in opposition.
Which parties agree? Which parties must you persuade? What compromises can be made with the other parties? What leverage have you?

Problem solvers don't usually begin by playing the first move they see that threatens the opposing king.

Maybe FIDE leadership agrees with you (that solving tourneys should be exempted from this dress code, at least for now). Maybe that's why these "overlords" have never enforced this dress code in solving tournaments.

Fix the imagination upon a passive overlord, and you will conjure such an irrational level of existential fear ("dead Cthulhu waits dreaming"), you'll never even notice it might all be completely harmless and silly.

If you're worried that might change without notice, simply adhere to their dress code in solving tournaments until the matter is negotiated to your satisfaction.

Again, we are talking about a costume change. This is hardly the Roman Empire.
Some restaurants insist upon a tie, others want shirt, shoes, and no skateboards.
You have the freedom to dress accordingly, and you have the freedom to start your own restaurant.
 
   
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(27) Posted by Kevin Begley [Sunday, Sep 17, 2023 02:50]

@Joose,

We'd all like to conquer the known universe.
If that's a secret to you, you're not listening to yourself (you're not even listening to Tears For Fears).

We hardly need to worry about FIDE succeeding in this pursuit.
FIDE couldn't hold Bangkok for a night.
Wijk aan Zee could ambush them with a bowl of soup!

If you want to go to war with "overlords" who *MIGHT* ask you to wear shoes and a shirt, you are attempting to simultaneously conquer melodrama.
You'll never master melodrama by refusing to wear the silly costume.

Hint: Eyepatch. Puffy shirt. Teach your macaw to announce forced mate in 12.


Chess enthusiast: Look everybody, I'm standing up to the man!
FIDE: Look everybody, I'm the man!
Everybody: Get a room.
 
   
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(28) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Sunday, Sep 17, 2023 03:41]

Joose:
 QUOTE 
Yes it is written the in the Code of Ethics, I quoted it in my first post.

"...fall under the jurisdiction of the EDC" does not mean "...fall under the jurisdiction of the FIDE".
But in fact, this point is the most dangerous in the Ethics Code.

By the way, the ECU Statutes states that they do not necessarily have to apply FIDE rules:
"ECU respects and applies FIDE rules and regulations, even concerning IOC Rules, except when in conflict with the present ECU Statutes and General Assembly decisions."
I think WFCC could also have something similar in its Statutes.
 
 
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(29) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Sunday, Sep 17, 2023 03:53]

@Kevin
Your language is too complicated for an ordinary chess composer to understand you.
 
   
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(30) Posted by Kevin Begley [Sunday, Sep 17, 2023 04:21]

@Victorias,

 QUOTE 

Your language is too complicated for an ordinary chess composer to understand you.


Let me guess: I lost you at macaw?!
That's a reference back to a previous post, where I suggested that pirate attire might force FIDE to negotiate the dress code issue.

My language is not as complicated as you like to pretend. You think too little of ordinary chess composers.


I do find it curious that a person in this thread can use an analogy that he admits will be unfathomable to most of us (only "most colleagues from European countries" have the capacity to understand why FIDE can be viewed as an empire -- this is too "difficult to explain ... to people from further countries, who do not understand what is happening in Europe"), but I can't drop a Murray Head reference without triggering faux bewilderment?!!

The language I use is simple English. I never use big words for the sake of using big words. My meaning is easily within the grasp of the vast majority of chess enthusiasts.

If anyone needs help discerning my meaning (which I found highly doubtful in the age of the internet), I'll be happy to explain any reference you may have missed (best to ask by private email here, unless you believe this vital to the discussion at hand).
I'm sincerely happy to help remedy any communication difficulties.
 
   
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(31) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Sunday, Sep 17, 2023 17:39]

@Kevin,

Sorry for my English. If I write something incorrectly or unclear, it may be Google Translate's fault.

Even though your text may seem simple at first glance, sometimes it requires to solve a rebus puzzle or use AI to understand it in another language. You might be wondering how ChatGPT interprets your text:

 QUOTE 
Chess enthusiast: Look everybody, I'm standing up to the man!
FIDE: Look everybody, I'm the man!
Everybody: Get a room.

ChatGPT:

This text appears to be a humorous and satirical exchange between a chess enthusiast and FIDE (Fédération Internationale des Échecs or International Chess Federation), along with a chorus of onlookers or observers.

"Chess enthusiast: Look everybody, I'm standing up to the man!"

The "Chess enthusiast" seems to be making a statement, suggesting that they are taking a stand or rebelling against someone or something. In this context, "the man" is often used colloquially to refer to an authority figure, an organization, or a powerful entity.

"FIDE: Look everybody, I'm the man!"

FIDE, the governing body for international chess, responds to the chess enthusiast's statement by humorously asserting that they are "the man" or the authority in the world of chess. Essentially, FIDE is claiming to be the very entity that the chess enthusiast is supposedly standing up against.

"Everybody: Get a room."

The term "Get a room" is an idiomatic expression often used when two people are engaging in public displays of affection or romantic behavior. In this context, it's used humorously to suggest that the exchange between the chess enthusiast and FIDE is akin to a public display of affection between two individuals. Essentially, the onlookers are telling them to take their "chess rivalry" somewhere more private, as if it were a romantic relationship.

Overall, this text appears to be a playful commentary on the dynamics between a chess enthusiast who wants to challenge authority and FIDE, which represents the chess establishment. The response from "Everybody" suggests that their interaction is being viewed with amusement or indifference by others.
 
   
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(32) Posted by Kevin Begley [Monday, Sep 18, 2023 00:10]

ChatGPT has missed the point of a very simple joke. LOL. This AI may be the perfect vehicle to deliver humanity into perpetual ambivalence.

I follow three rules in comedy, and the first rule is to never explain a joke.

The joke that ChatGPT has missed is not a difficult concept (for a human), so if you don't immediately understand the joke, analysis is unlikely to reveal the exaggeration you are not immediately recognizing as absurd (something lost on ChatGPT -- which has difficulty appreciating exaggerations -- and often its users).

You could claim the ridiculous analogy which was offered in this thread (pretending FIDE is like an empire) was very much like a joke.
Like a joke, we are told, you either appreciate this analogy, or you don't. Like a joke, explaining it would not be helpful.
Had this been offered as sarcasm, you could see it is a rough sketch with some capacity for humor (the outline of absurdity is there, but sarcasm requires a pronounced exaggeration).

My simple joke exaggerates the LOVE-HATE absurdity of the claimant's position (he claims to despise FIDE as an overlord, but he's actually self-gratified pretending FIDE is his overlord).
Everyone is capable of seeing this, but if you still don't see the absurdity of it, that's as close to a hint as you'll get from me.
 
   
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(33) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Tuesday, Sep 19, 2023 03:43]

@Kevin,
No one is fighting FIDE here. We are discussing the relationship between FIDE and FWCC. We need to know all the advantages and possible dangers for our organization.

I have already written that the analogy with the empire is presented only as an answer to the FIDE lover who argued that FIDE is similar to the UN. My satirical answer was that FIDE is more like an empire than the UN. On the other hand, my message also has a political undertone, but it is not directly related to FIDE.

As for the term "empire", it can have many meanings.
According to the definition from Wikipedia, "an empire is an aggregate of many separate states or territories under a supreme ruler or oligarchy. This contrasts with a federation, which is an extensive state voluntarily composed of autonomous states and peoples."

Additionally, the term "empire" can be used metaphorically to refer to a large and influential organization or network that exercises significant control or dominance in a particular field or industry (Business Empire, Media Empire, Retail Empire, Fashion Empire). There are several brands and businesses that use the word "Empire" in their name. Google will give you thousands of links to the "chess empire".

The FIDE empire is just a metaphor. At present, the main danger to all of us, and indeed to the entire civilized world, is the actual former empire, which is currently waging an imperialist war to reclaim its former empire's borders. This is a tragedy for millions of people. If the aggressor is not stopped now, it is certain that he will not stop.

Of course, territorial conquest occurs not only on land, but also in other areas, including in world sports organizations. Therefore, when making a decision, we must take this circumstance into account.
 
   
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(34) Posted by Joose Norri [Tuesday, Sep 19, 2023 05:29]

The most vocal in condemning Calvo were Arnold Denker of the USA and M.O. Ghobash of the UAE, Denker calling Calvo "a criminal of the worst type", at the FIDE general assembly. (For writing an article.) If you are willing to submit to that sort of - well, what - be my guest.
 
   
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(35) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Wednesday, Sep 20, 2023 02:04]

I stumbled across an article about the FIDE congress in Thessaloniki in 1988. It also discusses the proposed FIDE "Code of Ethics". Here is an excerpt from the article:

FIDE Congress Meets in Thessaloniki
by Ismail Sloan

SALONIKA - NOVEMBER 1988 - When one thinks of Greece, one thinks of a sunny vacation on a southern Greek isle. However, the drizzling cold of the polluted industrial Northern city of Thessaloniki, located near the border with Bulgaria, was the reality which faced the participants at the 1988 World Chess Olympiad.

The gloom which prevailed throughout the Olympiad was only partially allayed by the sparkling chess, including the performance of Kasparov, who has now established himself in the opinion of many grandmasters as a stronger player than Fischer ever was. However, some suggested that it was unfair to compare a modern player like Kasparov against a now historical player like Fischer. For example, Grandmaster Sunye of Brazil stated, "The game is different now. Kasparov has got the first forty moves analyzed, and after that it is time to adjourn. The game is played mostly away from the opponent." Grandmaster Christiansen of the U.S.A. said, "Kasparov has teams of people working for him. Fischer did it all by himself, with nobody to help him, while listening to late night radio broadcasts by the Church of God."
[..]

However, there is the other side of chess: The grimy but equally necessary world of chess politics, which manages to excite the imagination of those few (such as myself) interested in the arcane issues of show trials, kangaroo courts, and summary executions (with one bullet through the bishop). Here are some of the great issues of the day, which gripped the imagination of those present at the General Assembly meeting in Thessaloniki:

1. Would Grandmaster Quinteros of Argentina, an old friend of Bobby Fischer and until last year one of the most active and energetic players in the world, actually be stripped of the grandmaster title and banned from playing chess for the rest of his life?

2. Would World Champion Kasparov actually be disciplined or censured by FIDE for his public utterance that "FIDE is like the Mafia," words deemed to be grievously insulting to the higher echelons of the Costa Nostra.

3. Would the proposed "Code of Ethics" be passed, which provided that a player could be suspended from playing chess for a period up to four years for any of a wide variety of reasons, including "any violation of the laws of chess", such as an illegal move.

It was these and similar questions which had those present in the meetings of the General Assembly of FIDE sitting on their hands with adrenaline pumping, waiting in anticipation for the answers.
[..]

Full article: http://www.anusha.com/assembly.htm
 
   
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(36) Posted by Joose Norri [Wednesday, Sep 20, 2023 05:52]

Yes, read the full article. It didn't stop there and Sam Sloan was not the most unbiased of observers, but many reports are in the same spirit.
 
   
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(37) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Wednesday, Sep 20, 2023 07:35]

Wait. You want to tell me that a candidate for POTUS is not the most trustworthy of people?

Who could have seen that coming?
 
   
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(38) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Wednesday, Sep 20, 2023 11:17]

I stopped at this point to interest the reader. This report is interesting to me in a historical sense, without connecting it with the current situation. In general, sport is inseparable from politics and money.
 
 
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(39) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Wednesday, Sep 20, 2023 14:26]

 QUOTE 
You want to tell me that a candidate for POTUS is not the most trustworthy of people?

Here's a quote from Sloan's website:

In case anybody doubts the truth and accuracy of what you are about to read here, one of my frequent critics made the following statement:

"Sam Sloan is nearly always right; the trouble is that his insights are so deep, and so far ahead of the time, that they appear incredible to the educated layman. I myself have occasionally made the mistake of thinking that Sam Sloan had made an error. Invariably, sometimes a year or more later, I had to admit my mistake. Jurgen R."
 
   
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(40) Posted by Joose Norri [Thursday, Sep 21, 2023 20:51]

In my post "It didn't stop there" was meant to mean that it didn't stop that year. There was much to follow.
 
   
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