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MatPlus.Net Forum Promenade What's your Loyd number?
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(41) Posted by Rosie Fay [Monday, Jun 22, 2020 13:05]

Kostas: Bartel (who has 89 co-authors, even if not all of them are active today), Bedoni (46), Cheylan (29), Henk le Grand (35), Piet le Grand (28), Moutecidis (68) and others

The idea is a great one. But why start with Loyd? As we've seen, it takes ingenuity (in arguing that certain problems were collaborations) to get this thing started at all. Now the reason the analogous thing with mathematicians starts with Erdos is that Erdos collaborated with many people. Why not start with a chess composer with many collaborators, such as Kostas's example of Erich Bartel? Or another prolific composer from long ago, T.R. Dawson?
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(42) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Monday, Jun 22, 2020 14:25]; edited by Kostas Prentos [20-06-22]

The Loyd case was quite challenging. With composers who were active in the 20th century it is much easier, both to investigate the links and get to the present in just a few steps. For example, my Dawson number is 3 via Nenad Petrovic & Andrey Frolkin.

One can look for any kind of links to composers of the past. In my case, it might be interesting to find a link with an old study composer, like Troitsky, mainly because I don't have any joint problems with study composers.

Edit: It was rather easy to get a Troitsky number 4, via Vladimir Korolkov, Nikita Plaksin & Andrey Frolkin, but also with different combinations of composers.
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(43) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Monday, Jun 22, 2020 16:52]; edited by Andrew Buchanan [20-06-22]

I started with Loyd as a contemporary of and a compatriot of Morphy - I felt it resonated better. I wanted to shine a light perhaps on a few overlooked composers back in the distant past, and so happily it proved. By having someone so far back I hoped there would be no a priori bias for location of composers today. It turned out that Netherlanders are a little favoured but that’s just chance - it’s nothing to do with Loyd being American. I didn’t want to pick Dawson because he’s so famous for retros which are my thing: avoiding bias again.

I think it’s exciting that the trail from Loyd was doubtful at first and difficult to discern, and now we have documented primary sources, there is no reason to shift to some other more recent person. Also if you pick someone more recent and famous then everyone can probably reach them in 2-3 hops: where’s the fun in that?

Analogously to the Kasparov number for directed connectivity (i.e. transitive wins) it makes sense to have someone much more recent, because recent tourney results are much more complete. Petkov seems to be the right choice because of his relative dominance of the field, pwning him vicariously would be a real achievement.
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(44) Posted by Kevin Begley [Thursday, Jun 25, 2020 17:36]; edited by Kevin Begley [20-06-26]

This thread suggests a new fairy condition, which suggests a SPG annihilation problem (which I leave here as a trivial exercise for the reader).

First, the new fairy condition: Greatest Adjacent Royal Numbers Experience Rapture Chess (or GARNER Chess).

Following each move, the Adjacent Royal Number (ARN) for all units is calculated (according to adjacency with ANY royal unit), as follows:
For all Royal units, ARN = 1.
All non-royal units, the ARN = 1 + the lowest ARN of any adjacent unit.
For all non-royal units with no chain-adjacency to any royal unit, ARN = infinity.

Then, prior to the opponent's turn, ALL units (both sides) with the worst (Greatest) Adjacent Royal Number are removed from the board.
If the highest ARN on the board is five, ALL units (both sides) with ARN = 5 are immediately removed.

Examples (from starting position):
1. Na3 eliminates 5 units (wNa3, wPa2, wRa1, bRa8, and bPa7), all of which have ARN = 5.
1. a4 eliminates only 1 unit (wPa4), which has ARN = infinity.

Note: Checks are determined AFTER this elimination/annihilation/rapture phase (that is, a royal unit may step directly into check, providing the move does not result in self-check after the elimination phase).

(= 1+1 )


I believe this is an exact PG, but revealing the (low) number of moves required would spoil the fun.

EDIT: No, this is not an exact PG. White may interchange his last two moves (quite an oversight given that white only plays 4, and black 3).
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(45) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Sunday, Jun 28, 2020 21:43]; edited by seetharaman kalyan [20-06-29]

So queen is not royal? :). Englishmen will not like that
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(46) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020 04:23]

There are some "important" updates required to the base note, with some newly discovered compositions from yacpdb. But the edit button seems to have gone away. I really don't want to do copy-paste. Anyway the base note can be set to always allow edits, please? Maybe part of the PHP upgrade?
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(47) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Friday, Aug 14, 2020 05:04]

Funny! Chessbase has the same concept today:
The rules are simple. Anyone who has beaten Fischer at least once gets a Fischer number 1. Anyone who has beaten a player with a Fischer number 1, gets no.2, and so on.
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(48) Posted by Joose Norri [Friday, Aug 14, 2020 14:18]

Fischer 3 for me, via many routes… :-) Two British solving GMs are Fischer twos, but among living problemists I can't think of others off the top of my head.
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(49) Posted by Jakob Leck [Saturday, Aug 15, 2020 00:54]

See also the Magnus (Carlsen) number:
5 for me.
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(50) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Sunday, Aug 16, 2020 21:03]

Does simul count? Then I won against Rudolph who won in a simul :-)
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(51) Posted by Zalmen Kornin [Monday, Aug 17, 2020 17:10]

Considering only Tournament games, I'm a Fischer 3 through at least two lineages (Najdorf and Panno both 1). BTW, there're other Fischer 1s in South-America. Possibly other World Champions were beaten by these two Argentians, though. But I reach a Smyslov 3 through another way. Carlsen number? Well, I'm Leela-Zero number 1 (playing online when 'she' was still learning - and a site was opened to help develop the project).
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(52) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Monday, Aug 17, 2020 20:45]

Then you'll better hope she hasn't a grudge against
you when the AIs become our overlords :-)
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(53) Posted by Zalmen Kornin [Saturday, Aug 22, 2020 15:56]

Aren't they already?! :)

*Najdorf beat almost the who's who of Chess from Euwe to Fischer. "El Viejo" was a phenomenon... (and of course my source for a lot of "3"s
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(54) Posted by Zalmen Kornin [Saturday, Aug 22, 2020 15:56]

(accidentally repeated)
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MatPlus.Net Forum Promenade What's your Loyd number?