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MatPlus.Net Forum Promenade What's your Loyd number?
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(21) Posted by James Malcom [Wednesday, Jun 17, 2020 18:48]; edited by James Malcom [20-06-17]

Andrew, I presume you mean P1323350?

And my Loyd number is yours +1, or that of Zalmen's+1 (he was my first in co-composing).
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(22) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Wednesday, Jun 17, 2020 19:24]; edited by Andrew Buchanan [20-06-17]

Rewan said:


And my Loyd number is yours +1, or that of Zalmen's+1 (he was my first in co-composing)

You get to pick: whichever makes your number smaller! :-) Let me offer you confidential advice, just between you and me: I suggest that you become a close personal friend of Erich "5" Bartel.
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(23) Posted by James Malcom [Wednesday, Jun 17, 2020 19:47]; edited by James Malcom [20-06-17]

Well, I need to know your number first. :) And I would need to know Zalmen's as well to choose between at all.

And how do you do those quotations?
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(24) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Wednesday, Jun 17, 2020 19:57]

You do [ q ] and [ / q ] except no spaces.
I share several co-authors with Erich Bartel, so I am at most 7, so you are at most 8, but I haven't checked your other co-authors.
Feel free to message me in MatPlus "Notes" feature.
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(25) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Thursday, Jun 18, 2020 00:07]

Impressive research skills, Andrew. WinChloe doesn't have Keidanz (Keidanski) as the co-author of the crucial problem P1318466. Using only WinChloe leads to a dead end.

The method you used "statistics->authors" is exactly how I got the names and total number of Hartong's co-authors. Unfortunately, copy/paste doesn't seem to work and I have no clue how to extract the names automatically. For a start, here are the A's and B's: Johannes Albarda, Talip Amirov, Aleksandar Atanasijevic, Jozsef Bajtay, P.A. Bakker, Hrvoje Bartolovic, J. Batsleer, Romeo Bedoni, Henry Wald Bettmann, Dragutin Biscan, J.K. Blom, Henk B.F. Boumeester, Theo Brenner, Julius Buchwald, Johannes J. Burbach.
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(26) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Thursday, Jun 18, 2020 17:15]

Thanks Kostas,
I've finished generations 0-5, and I reckon the vast majority of current composers are 6-8.
And that's quite enough of this silly idea :)
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(27) Posted by Frank Richter [Thursday, Jun 18, 2020 17:28]

You could extend the idea to a "real" Loyd number:
X had a higher placed problem than Loyd in tourney 1 -> Number 1
Y had a higher placed problem than X in tourney 2 -> Number 2
Z had a higher placed problem than Y in tourney 3 -> Number 3
You had a higher placed problem than XYZ in tourney 123 -> Number 123

But this seems to be real challenge for research ;)
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(28) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Thursday, Jun 18, 2020 18:24]

Ha ha Frank that would be tough indeed! The competitive version of Morphy number is Kasparov number. So if your idea of competitive composer was serious then maybe pick a different composer than Loyd. Maybe Meredith? He was around a long time ago. And good luck with all the research! :)
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(29) Posted by Frank Richter [Thursday, Jun 18, 2020 20:16]

Not really serious ... but by the way, does anybody know the absolutely first problem chess tourney award (with prizes, places or similar) in the history of our passion?
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(30) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Thursday, Jun 18, 2020 20:41]

Bedrich Formánek in the book "Kompozičný šach na Slovensku" (Chess composition in Slovakia) states that:
- the first international tourney was The Era with original closing date 1.5.1856 (later postponed for 3 months),
- the very first chess composition tourney was some English tourney in 1852 (but it was national and no further details are given in the book).
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(31) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Thursday, Jun 18, 2020 21:01]; edited by Kostas Prentos [20-06-18]

WinChloe has some of the missing dates:

Atanasijevic, Aleksandr (from Hartong) (1922-2007)
Bartel, Erich (from Hartong) (1930-?)
Bedoni, Romeo, (from Hartong) (1927-?)
Cheylan, Yves (from Hartong) (1938-?)
Croes, Govert Aliander (from Niemeijer) (1925-?)
De Vos, F. (from Hartong) (1893-?)
Eerkes, Allard Pieter (from Hartong & Nanning, Frederik Willem) (1911-1993)
Gradstein, Stephan (from Nanning, Frederik Willem) (1909-?)
Gussopulo, Demetrio (from Hartong) (1900-1980)
Hegermann, Bernhard (from Hartong) (1897-1970)
Ivanov, Nikolai E. (from Hartong) (1914-2000) Who??
Kardos, Tivadar (from Hartong) (1921-1998)
Lamboo, Cornelis Henricus (from Hartong) (1910-?)
Le Grand, Henk (from Hartong) (1935-?)
Le Grand, Piet (from Hartong) (1935-?)
Mai, Guglielmo (from Hartong) (1906-1980)
Maruta, Hidajat (from Hartong) (1945-?)
Monreal, Pierre (from Hartong) (1916-2002)
Moutecidis, Pavlos (from Hartong) (1930-?)
Sorokin, Evgeny P. (from Hartong) (1932-?)
Swane, Jan Arnold Willem (from Hartong) (1901-1971)
Taale, Cornelius J. (from Hartong) (1890-?)
Termaat, Nicolaas Ijsbrand Johannes (from Hartong) (1909-?)
Visbeen, Frank (from Hartong) (1937-1996)
Yamanishi, Jorge T. (from Hartong) (1938-?)

To the best of my knowledge several of the composers on this list are with us: Bartel, Bedoni, Cheylan, both the Le Grand twins, Moutecidis and probably a few others.
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(32) Posted by Michael McDowell [Thursday, Jun 18, 2020 21:05]

John Rice wrote an article on the Chess Player's Chronicle tourney of 1852-54 in the November 2002 issue of The Problemist, which can be viewed on the BCPS website.
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(33) Posted by Marjan Kovačević [Thursday, Jun 18, 2020 21:51]

Atanasijević, Aleksandar, Born 25-10-1922, Mladenovac, Died 01-04-2007, Belgrade
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(34) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Friday, Jun 19, 2020 00:02]

Thank you, Marjan. I updated my previous comment with the missing date.
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(35) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Friday, Jun 19, 2020 05:57]

Thanks all, I have included the new composer details, together with Frank Richter's extension in the base note. So glad there's a bunch of the old guard still around. Just five chessboards (a total of maybe 2 metres length?) separate these guys from the golden age.
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(36) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Friday, Jun 19, 2020 12:56]

With many active composers being at level 6 via Bartel (who has 89 co-authors, even if not all of them are active today), Bedoni (46), Cheylan (29), Henk le Grand (35), Piet le Grand (28), Moutecidis (68) and others, my guess is that most current composers are either at level 7 or 8. Perhaps it is a bit harder for composers from Eastern Europe, or other continents.
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(37) Posted by Joost de Heer [Friday, Jun 19, 2020 21:11]

Wow, I am level 6 because I took care of the coffee for Henk and Piet during a WCCC meeting and they honoured me with co-authorship.
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(38) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Friday, Jun 19, 2020 22:17]; edited by Siegfried Hornecker [20-06-20]

If we go about the missing dates, here's a sneak peek to my SOTM article next week:

Reading that Fischer’s column introduced him to chess and his first endgame studies were published in 1936 hints to the columnist being the now largely forgotten [ Jean Fischer] (9 December 1909 - 4 December 1939) who ran the studies column in “De Schaakwereld” since 1936, as well as contributing to the “1234 Modern End-Game Studies” with a foreword. Fischer’s date of death and military career suggest that he became a war victim, but ARVES clarifies instead that he suffered a “fatal fall from a motor vehicle”.

Bonus points for correctly guessing (not in this thread, unless you already write because of something else, otherwise it unnecessarily bloats) what composer is talked about, i.e. who was introduced by Fischer's column.

EDIT: The ARVES website (link in the quote) links to an obituary in Dutch (in addition to having a few more informations about Jean Fischer). So maybe more can be extracted from there, but as he was not the main focus of my writing, I kept the information about him short.
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(39) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Saturday, Jun 20, 2020 04:22]

Joost, never underestimate the importance of coffee in chess composition.
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(40) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Saturday, Jun 20, 2020 11:20]; edited by Andrew Buchanan [20-06-20]

Thanks Siegfried for the information on Fischer. I've added him and the other missing gen-5 composers to PDB, together with linking compositions. Any further information (full names, birth/death years, whether still with us) to help complete the gen-5 picture would be gratefully received. Congratulations Joost! :)
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MatPlus.Net Forum Promenade What's your Loyd number?