Website founded by
Milan Velimirović
in 2006

18:03 UTC
ISC 2022



Remember me

Forgot your
Click here!
to create your account if you don't already have one.

Rating lists


MatPlus.Net Forum Promenade The Wagner move
You can only view this page!
(1) Posted by Steven Dowd [Friday, May 16, 2008 21:01]

The Wagner move

In the latest Schwalbe, J. Kratz discusses the Wagner move - a check provocation with a queen promotion. He notes he knows of no mate problem using the move.

Is this the first?

CS Kipping
Manchester City News 1911

(= 4+3 )


I find this (idea,theme, move) quite interesting. Do posters know of any more?
(Read Only)pid=2286
(2) Posted by Vladimir Tyapkin [Friday, May 16, 2008 21:13]

Loyd's 'Steinitz Gambit' comes to mind.
(Read Only)pid=2287
(3) Posted by Michael McDowell [Friday, May 16, 2008 21:17]

Loyd's "Steinitz Gambit" three-mover (1st Prize, Checkmate Ty 1903) would seem to be the obvious predecessor.
(Read Only)pid=2288
(4) Posted by [Friday, May 16, 2008 21:35]; edited by [08-05-16]

I probably haven't understood the nub of it, as this appeared in the
first source I checked (Theory of Pawn Promotion, what else?)

J. P. Taylor
(= 7+3 )

3rd pr. English Mechanic, 1891-01-16

Not being a subscriber to Schwalbe (too modern ... :-), is there
an example that might clear it up?
(Read Only)pid=2289
(5) Posted by Vladimir Tyapkin [Sunday, May 18, 2008 04:09]; edited by Vladimir Tyapkin [08-05-18]

Here is a less known problem by Vladimir Savchenko. He published a series of moremovers with Loyd's "refuse to capture" idea in the 60-70ss. He presented it in the form where white refuses to capture black queen repeatedly.

Vladimir Savchenko
Chess Moscow, 1970
1 prize
(= 13+12 )


1.Rd1? Sd2 2.Rd2 h1Q+!
1.0-0-0! ab2+ 2. Kc2! (2.Kb2? Qb8+, 2.Kb1? Sd2+) b1Q+ 3. Kc3! Qb2+ 4. Kd3! Qe2+ 5. Ke2 f3+ 6. Ke1 Sd2 7. Sd7 Ke4 8.Bc2#
(Read Only)pid=2293
(6) Posted by Steven Dowd [Monday, May 19, 2008 20:55]

I think Kratz meant only Kh3/a3 h1Q+/a1Q+ versus Kg3/h3 h1S+/a1S+.

Vladimir, that is a nice example because every player like me wants to check and take the queen. :)

I wonder how long white has held out to a promoted queen? That is how many queen checks until white must finally capture and/or lead up to the mate? I was able to come up with a dualized end mate and seven queen checks, including the initial promotion, but it wasn't much of a problem yet.
(Read Only)pid=2297
(7) Posted by Jan Hein Verduin [Friday, May 30, 2008 10:52]

Let's not forget this classic:

A. Krämer
1st prize Römmig MT
(= 7+4 )

(Read Only)pid=2339

No more posts

MatPlus.Net Forum Promenade The Wagner move