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MatPlus.Net Forum General Semi-reflexmate
 
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(1) Posted by Steven Dowd [Sunday, Mar 15, 2009 17:13]

Semi-reflexmate


Can anyone tell me, with examples if possible, why this condition makes sense? It strikes me more as a cheat, imposing an additional condition on one side. I saw it used in a problem where it made black choose one move more carefully over the other, but really, it was more of a transposition of moves.

Plus the condition is so rarely seen, at least by me, that I wonder if people are even interested in them.
 
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(2) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Monday, Mar 16, 2009 20:18]

A good example could be :

Walter Jorgensen
Arbejder Skak 1952

(= 8+9 )


Semi-reflexmate 2#

1…d1=Q+ 2.Ké4 Q×é2‡
1…d1=B 2.Bf1 Sf2‡
1…d1=S 2.Qç2 Sdf2‡
1…d1=R+ 2.Kç2 Rd2‡

1.Bf3! blocus
1…d1=Q+ 2.Ké4 Q×b1‡
1…d1=B 2.Bé4 Sf2‡
1…d1=S 2.Ké4 Sdf2‡
1…d1=R+ 2.Kç2 Rd2‡
 
 
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(3) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Monday, Mar 16, 2009 21:27]; edited by Siegfried Hornecker [09-03-16]

Walter Jorgensen
Arbejder Skak 1952
version by SH

(= 9+9 )


r#2

This is a r#2 with the same variations and doesn't need "semi". So again it was just a constructional help to save a white pawn - thus no good example.
 
   
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(4) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Monday, Mar 16, 2009 22:10]; edited by Jacques Rotenberg [09-03-17]

In "reflex" you have to deal with the fact that white has to give mate if possible.

If this has nothing to do with the problem, why to use it ?

Semi-reflex is lighter than reflex.

And in this problem a pawn less is lighter also.
 
   
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(5) Posted by Steven Dowd [Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 22:30]

I found this to be the best example by Ion Murarasu:

(= 3+3 )


1. Sf4+ Kg7 2. Qb7+ Kf8 3. Sg6+ Ke8 4. Qc8+ Kf7 5. Qd7+ Kf6 6. Qe7+ Kxg6 7. Qg7+ Kxg7 8. Kh5 Sf6#

Paul Raican also does wonderful semis, I have seen, but they are like Gamnitzer's selfmates, I understand the end but very little of what goes on in the middle. Perhaps semis are a Romanian specialty?

I agree with Siegfried about the example, but I think Jacques words were helpful : a reflexmate is not brought about in the same way as a selfmate. Personally, so far, with the little composing I have done in the medium, I prefer reflexmates and the struggle by each side to avoid mate. Ralf K. would probably kill me for saying this, but they strike me as a sort of "intelligent duplex Berlin theme."
 
   
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(6) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 06:45]

The whole solution, please!
 
 
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(7) Posted by Christophe Préchac [Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 17:05]

I am surprised by Steven's doubts about the interest of the semi-reflex idea.
To me it looks much more natural than the full reflex. The semi-reflex condition can be seen as a "cheat" since it looks so especially designed to help White achieve the goal (unlike, say, Black maximummer), but certainly it has produced very interesting problems.

And me who thought there would be future for the "semi-direct-reflex" idea... (direct problem where Black must allow mate in 1 unless he can mate in 1 himself)
 
 
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(8) Posted by Steven Dowd [Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 17:45]; edited by Steven Dowd [09-03-18]

I did provide the full solution, I think, Jacques.

As to Christophe's comment, I see your point and I see semi-reflex as less of a cheat , given the proper use. The Rumanian examples were the most helpful to me. Like anything else, it is in how it is used.

I've just started with reflexmates and in some ways, you could see the reflex condition as a "cheat" since it forces certain white decisions such as underpromotion or move order.

I still think the *words* Jacques used were wonderful:

In "reflex" you have to deal with the fact that white has to give mate if possible.

If this has nothing to do with the problem, why to use it ?


I would add that the nature of the forcing is different in a semi or reflexmate than in the selfmate, which means, for example, with a BP on a2, WKc2, WRb1, Wpd2 e2, white drops back the king to d1 and is mated by axb1Q - a simplistic example, I know, but in some settings it can be complexly executed.
 
 
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MatPlus.Net Forum General Semi-reflexmate