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MatPlus.Net Forum General 6th ISC - Rating
 
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(1) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Thursday, Jul 1, 2010 08:56]

6th ISC - Rating


There is a new rating list published today. However 6th ISC rating changes are not included. I am wondering who made decision not to rate this tournament. In my opinion all the ratings published are invalid. This rating does not make any sense anymore. You cannot randomly include/exclude competitions.
 
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(2) Posted by Michal Dragoun [Thursday, Jul 1, 2010 13:43]

In this moment there are only preliminary results of ISC, not final. For rating calculation final results are necessary.
 
 
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(3) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Thursday, Jul 1, 2010 19:14]

Well, it looks to me that somebody is manipulating with a rating. More than five months after the competition there are no official results. I cannot see any excuse for this delay. Why there is no official explanation by PCCC about this issue? In my opinion complete presidium of the PCCC should resign because of inactivity. Can you imagine that there is an ice-skating event and that there are no official results 5 months after the events? Than what are the rules if some of the participants died in the meantime? Do we count their results or not? I could not find this in the rules. There should be some consequences if some deadlines are missed. At least due to moral reasons PCCC presidium should resign and let some more capable people to lead our organization.
 
   
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(4) Posted by Kevin Begley [Friday, Jul 2, 2010 12:28]

@Miodgra,

"In my opinion complete presidium of the PCCC should resign..."

I hereby announce my candidacy to temporarily fill the vacancy (of the entire presidium), should they decide that this latest call for resignation has merit; and, despite nobody here knowing what exactly is causing the delay in these particular solving ratings, I am confident that a large number of people will agree that an all-hands resignation is entirely warranted (throw them dummies out - yeehaw!).

Once I am sworn in as the Acting Presidium, I will move quickly to uncover all parties involved (even tangentially) in this deplorable delay, then swiftly terminate their asses (retroactively) from their former duties!

Next, I would implement live solving ratings -- these have done wonders to remove the FIDE brand from rating outlets, and similarly, these could bring positive media attention to both PCCC and solving contests.

In my remaining time in office, after the photo ops have quieted somewhat, I intend to convene a blue ribbon panel (consisting of Sandra Bullock and myself) to keenly focus on two key issues:
1) Is there any truth to the implication that FIDE was involved in the murder of an innocent journalist?
2) How could anybody (from the chess problem environment) be so frustrated about a minor delay in solver ratings?
I'm still waiting (102 months!) to see a particular composition award -- 5 months, isn't even a hockey season.
 
   
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(5) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Friday, Jul 2, 2010 15:27]; edited by Sarah Hornecker [10-07-02]

As for 1) Only their corrupt president, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larisa_Yudina - on the other hand, there were plans for a murder of Korchnoi if he'd win against Karpov in 1981. It is dubios what Karpov has to do with it, but at least the KGB planned that. See "Der KGB setzt matt" by Gulko, Korchnoi, Popov & Felchinsky
As for 2) Soviet tourneys took sometimes over 20 years (!)

Oh yes, and you have my support for PCCC presidency, if they will need a new presidium.
 
   
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(6) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Friday, Jul 2, 2010 20:39]; edited by seetharaman kalyan [10-07-02]

<The question about Ilyumzhinov’s personal involvement in the crime is still open, as the organiser of the murder S.Vaskin (a person with repeated convictions) was Ilyumzhinov’s Legal Advisor >
From the website of the opposition party in Kalmykia: http://eng.yabloko.ru/Press/2010/05262010-yudina.html
 
   
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(7) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Saturday, Jul 3, 2010 00:30]

I however suggest this talk is held in a separate thread to let this one be reserved for the ISC discussion. Milan can do something about it, I think.
 
   
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(8) Posted by Kevin Begley [Saturday, Jul 3, 2010 01:24]

It was not my intent to bigfoot the topic here, with implications about Ilyumzhinov & FIDE...
I only reintroduced this old, whispered allegation to bring needed perspective to the present discussion.

I don't recall anybody calling for an all-hands resignation of FIDE, given what was a far more serious allegation.
I just assumed that reasonable people don't grab pitchforks over allegations (regardless how severe).
But, we don't even have an allegation as to what caused this rating delay.

I saw little protest against the FIDE V.P.'s numerous attempts to eliminate (and usurp) our democratically elected governing body (PCCC).
Mr.Selivanov operates like a train off the tracks, but we're called to raise the black flag against a relatively minor delay in rating a single solving tournament?

If people want to remove Uri Avner, and indeed the entire presidium, the solution is very simple: vote accordingly.
I would only caution the electorate to become well informed, before casting.
 
 
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(9) Posted by David Knezevic [Saturday, Jul 3, 2010 04:16]

 QUOTE 
Milan can do something about it...


Sorry but at the moment the simplest idea seems to be to close this Forum. Or better, to close it for those who misuse it.

Please try to stick to the topic; avoid discussion outside the field of chess compositions (FIDE and its President belong there too!); avoid long "pseudo-eloquent" posts without a point; be concise and direct; don't make assumptions about things you have only an outside view or about the people you don't know; don't feel obliged to take part in every discussion; don't...

This thread is a typical example of digression (or diversion?) on an very clear and unambiguous issue.

I share Misha's feelings, even anger, about the situation with the ISC. For a competition organized by a serious body as PCCC a 5 months delay cannot be excused. How can anybody (from the chess problem environment) call it "a minor delay in solver ratings"? In Misha's case with rating points from his top class solving in the ISC he would be the best placed Serbian solver, without it he is the second. Even I performed quite well for my age on that occasion and probably would have reached few points closer to the best rating I ever had (many years ago) - and I wish to do in this life. You can add my name to the list of frustrated solvers.

Regardless the official results of the ISC: why the calculations of local controllers must be double-checked? To prevent cheating? Believe me, if anybody wants to cheat he can do it anyway.

Oh yes, GM Andrey Selivanov already did so many good things for chess composition, more than most of us could do in three life times. And I'm happy to say that he is a very good friend of mine.
 
   
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(10) Posted by Kevin Begley [Saturday, Jul 3, 2010 09:25]; edited by Kevin Begley [10-07-03]

To Milan,

I do take your point.
But, in my defense, I must say that my long bouts of "pseudo-eloquence," which might be considered "indirect," were, in fact, quite pointed and concise.

Miodrag's "very clear and unambiguous" topic wandered (I dare say "digressed") into old, familiar territory, when he called for the entire PCCC presidium to resign their elected posts.
I do apologize for not resisting such an absurd bait.

I certainly do not care to [be] labeled "the party responsible for bringing down the Mat Plus Forum," therefore, I will discontinue.

And, to Miodrag:

Congrats on your pending title: #1 Serbian solver (by rating)!!
I sincerely wish you didn't have to wait to obtain what you've earned...

Chess is a never-ending lesson in patience, for us all.

Kevin.
 
   
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(11) Posted by Guy Sobrecases [Saturday, Jul 3, 2010 11:45]

Milan,
I see no defamatory and nothing inappropriate in the messages of Kevin. I find his humor corrosive,... and pleasant. One can understand that this irritates the Andrej's fan club (no more than three or four people anyway).
As there is no defamatory nor inappropriation, the instructions that you give on the "correct" form and content of the messages are not acceptable for a forum user. As for the "pseudo-eloquence," I find it unnecessarily offensive.
 
   
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(12) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Saturday, Jul 3, 2010 13:41]

@Kevin

If you do want to talk about Andrey Selivanov you should use some other post. My post was about 6th ISC ratings and I do not see any connections to Andrey. If you do want to discuss about Andrey you should create a new post. I find it’s very inappropriate to link my post with Andrey. He does not have anything to do with my post. I am sure that if had been in place of Uri Avner that results would already be published and there would be no reason for me to write my post in a first place. Check any competition organized by Andrey and you will see that he always follows up on the deadlines. Even if you do not like him (what is obvious from your posts) you should at least give him respect for this fact.

After your statement that five months is minor delay there is no any sense to going further into any serious discussion with you. It’s obvious that you are type of person who does not care about deadlines at all. I do have quite opposite view and I feel very bad when I miss some deadline.

And for the end I would add some more facts about ratings. Personally I do not care if Bojan is in front of me with his rating. He is a great solver and most likely he is better solver than me so he does deserve it. I am more anger because I was not 9th on the rating list from the 1st April this year. That would be my best rank ever. If you check rating lists in the other sports information about highest rank ever is very important and usually it’s listed together with a rating in a separate column. Due to bad efficiency of our organization I may never be in a chance to be in that position.

I do not know about the other solvers but personally I decided not to compete any more in rated tournaments. With this unfair rating system it does not make any sense. Rating system does make a sense only if there are strict rules that everyone will accept and make sure they are followed up on.
 
   
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(13) Posted by Guy Sobrecases [Saturday, Jul 3, 2010 15:13]

Miodrag,
Your request for "the complete presidium of the PCCC to resign” seems very excessive, given the nature of the problem. I guess Kevin could think it can only be explained as part of the action managed by Andrej to take control over PCCC (for many years, and by non-democratic means). Regarding long delays, contrary to what you write, Andrej had also to suffer this kind of trouble (see the RIPHEY Tourney, for example). You did not ask him to close his website, to stop editing his review, or to resign from FIDE because of that. This would also have been very excessive, I think.
 
   
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(14) Posted by Kevin Begley [Saturday, Jul 3, 2010 16:59]; edited by Kevin Begley [10-07-03]

@Miodrag,
As noted earlier, it is my sincere intent to discontinue posting here.
However, two of your comments demand a public reply.

"Even if you do not like him [Mr.Selivanov] (what is obvious from your posts)..."

I certainly do not dislike him personally -- let's make that perfectly clear: I don't even know him.
[As a matter of fact, I have very much enjoyed a number of problems he has composed.]
His actions were brought into this post, only to contrast your outrage for a PCCC delay (versus a lack of outrage for what I consider more serious issues: overtaking PCCC).

"It’s obvious that you are type of person who does not care about deadlines at all..."

You have no capacity to speculate upon "the kind of person" that I am.
This is plain slander.

[edit: there are major delays in problem chess. we all grow accustomed to them. we all despise them. we all empathize with how this one has affected you. but, removing the entire presidium would be a rash action, and you know that (even unwelcome outsiders, like me, know it). don't let it get the better of you.]
 
   
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(15) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Saturday, Jul 3, 2010 18:23]

In the best interest of everyone, please calm down!

Selivanov is a great person, as I always said, and I doubt without him we would have the financial means we have now. Why do people not care much for chess composition? Because it is not a profitable field to invest in. So the money we get via Selivanov is probably the only one we can hope for, unless another A.C. White is appearing.

The ISC issue is organisatoric, I think, and not related to Selivanov. I do not agree in the resigning of the presidium, but rather in an investigation why it takes so long with a publication of the results of the investigation.

I think, you both are also nice persons, Misha and Kevin, and you were both misunderstood to a degree. However, what's the use if you have a lasting argument now? It will not make the results appearing earlier, and it will not be good for our small world of chess composition. Here, the wolf eats the sheep if not all sheep hold together. Gens una Sumus - a motto invented by the great Alexander Rueb - is nowhere so true as here. Most problemists are good friends with each other because our world is so small. If we can not lay down our arguments, we might ultimately reduce our world to a size that does not guarantee its mere existance anymore. The worst situation would be if we split in several groups.

There is this scenario where an alien attack against the world is faked so that every nation comes together to defend against this threat, in an old Outer Limits episode from around 1960. There is no such resort for us. Either we survive as brothers or we die as splinter groups.

So again: In the best interest of the whole world, please calm down, stop the argument.
 
 
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MatPlus.Net Forum General 6th ISC - Rating