MatPlus.Net

 Website founded by
Milan Velimirović
in 2006

10:27 UTC
ISC 2024
 
  Forum*
 
 
 
 

Username:

Password:

Remember me

 
Forgot your
password?
Click here!
SIGN IN
to create your account if you don't already have one.
CHESS
SOLVING

Tournaments
Rating lists
1-Jan-2024

B P C F





 
 
MatPlus.Net Forum General Concerns about the future of WFCC
 
You can only view this page!
Page: [Previous] [Next] 1 2 3 4 5 6
(21) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Friday, Mar 11, 2022 20:25]

Steffen, you state it right, it is a horrible dilemma (and since
Alain demanded to know - I'd give a hesitant yes to a boycott of
national organizations, and a heavy no to a boycott of individuals -
if we declare to defend civilization, we should stalwartly keep to
their ideals).

Once a German journal, as ultraleftwing as possible ("everyone Nazi,
except Mommy") vehemently defended the poems of Ezra Pound.
I agree: There are no such thing as warmongering chess problems.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22500
(22) Posted by Alain Villeneuve [Friday, Mar 11, 2022 20:59]

Of course Hauke, my French teacher colleague, wife of the deputy communist mayor of Vitry-sur-Seine, gave to her students work on Drieu la Rochelle's texts.
Closer to us, we know about the great friendship between the great problemists A. Kraemer and E. Zepler, not really from the same "side".
All this is obviously at the opposite of the incomprehensible Liptonian aggressiveness, accompanied by propaganda and flabbergasting, reminiscent of the methods of the current French president.
Many thanks and congratulations to Julia.
 
 
(Read Only)pid=22501
(23) Posted by Milomir Babić [Friday, Mar 11, 2022 22:44]

Thank you Julia for such a reasonable, clear and principled attitude.
I would not like to involve politics in this small community of ours either, but some persistent breakers of our unity simply do not allow a person to remain indifferent to their destructive activities.
Here I will briefly present the basic facts.
Nobody understands the situation in Ukraine better than ours which were under day and night destruction for 78 days under NATO missiles without opetrol, without fuel, without electricity, whose substations were destroyed. and they threw some wires called graphic bombs on the transmission lines to disable them as well. Where bridges on all rivers across the country have been torn down. And when the children in the incubators died, a cynical justification was given: "Let them not give the fuel to the army, so they will have it for the incubators"! Everyone should be ashamed who attacks innocent problemists, and has not condemned the barbaric destruction of our country, and has not yet apologized to us problemists for such crimes by their governments and states. Part of our country is still under occupation with a built NATO base. However, we did not ask anyone to exclude problemists from the aggressor states. We are not asking for that now, but we are asking for an apology from you with double standards, who want to break up our small organization at any cost.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22502
(24) Posted by Joose Norri [Friday, Mar 11, 2022 23:27]

I'd just mention that FIDE and the ECU have taken a different stance. Here is the latest, there are more detailed press releases. https://www.fide.com/news/1618

This might of course very well change. Among other things that would mean that Nepomniachtchi would not be allowed to play the candidates; and he is the top signee of https://www.chess.com/news/view/stop-the-war-44-top-russian-players-publish-open-letter-to-putin This may be considered insignificant in proportion, but he has done all he can. And spare a thought for Oleg Pervakov, another signee, who as the chief editor of 64 has perhaps most to lose.

I'm not saying the WFCC should automatically follow FIDE, indeed often the opposite; however, some strange situations are on the horizon if FIDE and WFCC take different decisions. The FIDE World Cup naturally: "The organizers are the International Chess Federation, with the participation of the World Federation for Chess Composition." But I expect some of the judges will have their own opinion.

I take this opportunity to point out that FIDE to this day has WFCC under Affiliated Organizations, which, according to the statutes, should not be the case. This is probably irrelevant here.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22503
(25) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Saturday, Mar 12, 2022 04:51]

Nearly seven years ago, in 2015, Darko shot this picture and gave me permission to use it:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yj7Ec29lB7c/VYRbjhcEoGI/AAAAAAAAAEo/-W3G8qNCP74/s1600/Scar.jpg

I had written:
 QUOTE 
On the corner of Kneza Milosa and Nemanjina Street is a big scar


Never once was I treated anything but friendly by the Serbian people, despite being from one of the countries that had no issues shooting rockets directly into the middle of Belgrade, where lots of civilians live nearby.
Never once was I treated badly by any Israeli composers, despite being from the country that wanted to exterminate their entire race less than a century ago.


Our world of chess problemists treated each other as a family.
I will not start today to backstab my Russian brothers and sisters.
Not on the behalf of any federation. Not on the behalf of warmonger Putin, corrupt Zelensky, or any other person who wished they controlled us. Not on behalf of any organization where I am a member.

I was treated as family by those whose own families were murdered or tried to be murdered by the corrupt leaders of my country.
I will treat those whose grandfathers a century ago might have committed unspeakable crimes in my country after WWII, who also divided Germany for 40 years, with the same love and respect that I got.

The war crimes of the past are war crimes of the past. We live now. We have to make our stand now.
We do not defend Europe by excluding Russians from our tourneys. But we defend our own humanity by not allowing ourselves to be divided.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22504
(26) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Saturday, Mar 12, 2022 06:09]

Here is a practical question we faced in StrateGems, when we discussed what to do: "What country to use for Russian composers?". Using Russia means that Russian composers represent their country. With WFCC (the equivalent of FIDE) taken off the table - not accepted by the WFCC, RCF being the only alternative accepted by the Russian delegate, but not favored by us (I was personally opposed to the use of RCF), we reached an impasse.

Magazines are independent and not affiliated to the WFCC, so this question is not important for the larger picture regarding the future of the WFCC. But it would be interesting to see some opinions and answers (please be civil) and also what other magazines will do. I am also looking forward to finding out what the WFCC will decide on all kinds of different matters, like composing and solving tourneys run by the WFCC.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22505
(27) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Saturday, Mar 12, 2022 08:01]

Hi Kostas,

Thanks for your question. This is not easy.

My humble, foolish position is this. Why is a country necessary for a composer? Can’t the field be blank? Or can someone put in multiple values? Or religion? Or their city? Or their spouse? Or favourite football team? Or astrological sign? Or their favourite problem theme? Why would a “delegate” have any kind of veto role? That begs the whole question. Gens Una Sumus has nothing to do with countries. “Nation” is a convenient administrative concept that helps with local geographical franchises, but let’s not over-value a few pretty flags.

We are on a tiny planet in the middle of a vast universe, and we will all be dead soon. Nationalism is at best boring and at worst extremely dangerous. Carl Sagan’s pale blue dot soliloquy says it all.

More importantly to my mind: are there composers at the moment who are in severe difficulty or danger? As an organization, how can WFCC help them to escape, to integrate as asylum seekers, or at the very least to improve their morale and quality of life? I think of World War 2 and the terrible Siege of Leningrad. Everything will happen more quickly than in those days. But is there a “Plan B” for countries which are not yet invaded? And how can we make it easier for composers who are not refugees but who are effectively political prisoners in their own countries? Some may bravely choose to take a stand but I would try to respect those who feel they cannot, and not put them in an invidious position.

We are not generally very worldly people - we need more help than others.

“Gens” in Ancient Rome means extended family. That works for me.

Thanks
Andrew
 
 
(Read Only)pid=22506
(28) Posted by Panagiotis Konidaris [Saturday, Mar 12, 2022 09:03]

I agree with Marcos and Borislav. By the way, we, chessplayers, are famous for our memory abilities. So, we still must have in memory the wars in Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and -in the not so far past- Cyprus. Strong memories, yes, but...But I dont recall any condemnation, bans or any kind of punishments for chessplayers, solvers and composers coming from these countries that bombed these states in the near past. Or countries that participated in similar massacres as the one we see now happening in Ukraine, with our Ukrainian friends as victims. And that was, in my opinion, damn right! Because no one individual must be banned or punished because of the (insane)actions of his government, state etc. Our Russian colleagues, solvers and composers are artists, not warriors. Many of them are opposite of war (like Mr Pervakov and other respectable problemists). Many of them remain silent because of a bunch of reasons. In any case, they are not personally responsible for all this horror, they are not murderers! So, punishing and prohibiting Russian problemists from competitions of WFCC it is not a solution, its rather a small part of the problem. Its an act of hate and resembles cold war memories: a shame. Not an equal shame as the darkness of war and destruction of course, but still a shame for our small community.My heart is saddened with pictures of war, and is suffering along Ukrainian friends. I want this insane war to stop immediately. But in the meantime i do not intent to crucify innocent solvers and composers.
 
 
(Read Only)pid=22507
(29) Posted by Jean-Marc Loustau [Saturday, Mar 12, 2022 20:17]

This post, just to send one vote more in the same way previously expressed by many other voices: thank you particularly to Marcos, Borislav (through the Marcos’s voice), Dragan, Julia, and several others. Also, Marjan, to make the silence less frightening... There are so many reasons to be frightened!
- Like Jacques I do think the « British proposal, line by line is a shame ».
- Like Dragan I do think « Promotion of such ideas is very dangerous, unhealthy »
- Like Julia « I'm against any sanction to the individuals »
- Again like Julia « I hope the local sanctions couldn't be higher to FIDE statements ».

Honestly, I can’t see how to express things in better words than those above.
I just add 1 point.

Obviously I am deeply against the banishment of Russian or Belarussian problemists from the magazines.
On the contrary I do think that we should not only accept but welcome their problems: indeed in this specific context the Kremlin has explicitly designated many countries as “hostile”; so if a Russian/Belarusian problemist publishes in one of these countries (particularly under a “neutral” flag), it could be and probably would be interpreted by the Russian authorities as an act of dissent, what seems, in this specific days, lead to the most serious problems for the “dissident”. In other words, publishing originals elsewhere than Russia or Belarussia is for RUS/BEL problemists a way to express their disagreement with regard to the actions perpetrated by the Kremlin, at their own risks, and such expression should not be censored: as many times in the History, Art is a peaceful way to fight the tyranny.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22508
(30) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Saturday, Mar 12, 2022 21:44]

I also give my vote. No sanctions against individual problemists (composers and solvers). I fully support statements by Borislav, Marjan, Julia, Dragan and many others who are against individual sanctions. All their statements are very similar and I think we are all on the same page. We are strongly against the war in Ukraine but it should not be a reason to sanction innocent problemists. And yes, if editors are confused under which country symbol to publish problems by Russian, Belarusians I recommend that they do not publish any country name/symbol for any of composers. And honestly even if you publish problem by some well known Russian authors without a country name everyone will know where they are from.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22509
(31) Posted by Alain Villeneuve [Saturday, Mar 12, 2022 22:20]

Although I agree with Jean-Marc and Miodrag on 9/10 of their messages, I find it hard to understand why Russian composers should forget to mention that they are Russian and legitimately proud of it.
Should I abdicate my belonging to the thousand-year-old France under the pretext that the current president of my country is a terrible satanic gangster ?
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22511
(32) Posted by Jean-Marc Loustau [Saturday, Mar 12, 2022 22:45]

Well; a quick answer to Alain to clarify my point of view: Alain, I did not say that RUS/BEL composers “should forget to mention their country”, but I see it is a statement of the FIDE for official competitions, thus I can understand that, for coherence, magazines wish to not mention their nationality and use a neutral flag. And I agree with Misha that a good solution could be that magazines publish no country name/symbol for any composer.

Also, your opinon about French president is completely out of this topic and reflects only your personal point of view (there are other forums for this).
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22512
(33) Posted by Alain Villeneuve [Saturday, Mar 12, 2022 23:05]

Of course Jean-Marc, I have no intention to start a political discussion on a chess forum. I just wanted to point out a (very benign, admittedly) hypocrisy. We belong to a country we like, and we don't necessarily like a "neutral flag".
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22513
(34) Posted by Michel Caillaud [Saturday, Mar 12, 2022 23:59]

Most of us agree.
I already mentioned that Phenix and Probleemblad will follow the same line as Julia.
@Marcos
A proposal at WFCC is not WFCC. Delegates are still to pronounce about it.
@Milomir
I still remember the taxi driver on our way to Subotica (Alain and I) : "look at that YOU have done".
I am not the one to confuse between citizenship of a country and what is done by those governing it...
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22515
(35) Posted by Mark Kirtley [Sunday, Mar 13, 2022 01:17]

I have enjoyed the elegant writing by Julia, Andrew, and others on the present subject. I too am against sanctioning any problemist who simply wants to participate in the art, which is, after all, an amateur's art, an admirer's art, one in which hardly ever does a problemist make money.
I like thinking we are all pen-pals.

If a journal makes a decision to sanction, then I can appreciate the intention to support a peace effort, but as we all know, intentions often deserve further review if they cannot be computer-tested!


(I have edited and simplified this post that I made yesterday.)
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22516
(36) Posted by Marjan Kovačević [Sunday, Mar 13, 2022 01:22]

Michel, I'm glad you heard those words from a taxi driver, not a chess composer.
Luckily, taxi drivers don't have a right to decide about the future of the WFCC.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22517
(37) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Sunday, Mar 13, 2022 12:23]

(By the way, Putin stated a few months ago that, following the fall of the Soviet Union, he moonlighted as a taxi driver…)

I can understand that some folk feel proud of their country, but as stated there are many other things one can take pride in. And what does country mean: birth, residence, cultural root? What about Scotland in UK? Or Catalonia in Spain? Many countries where composers lived no longer exist (e.g. Prussia). What about people who have as I do diverse roots, or multiple nationality?

PDB has an optional field in the author’s record which allows for a country to be recorded, but that doesn’t get copy-pasted into any composition, and I think like dob and dod is mainly used for data curation and biographical purposes. This I think is the right level of importance for this data field.

If Gens Una Sumus means anything, it must surely allow someone to escape the Procrustean nonsense of a single forced chess nationality and declare that they are simply a mortal earthling. Why would one not take pride in being human? Why would nationality be essential for chess? Please leave your nationality at the door. It has no necessary place here.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22519
(38) Posted by Joose Norri [Sunday, Mar 13, 2022 13:56]

I second the motion. In fact, I'd gladly see there were no national flags and anthems at sports Olympics either.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22520
(39) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Sunday, Mar 13, 2022 14:35]

In 1939, the Women World Championship was held.
Sonja Graf had spoken out against Hitler's government. She participated under the flag of the fictional country "Libre".

Somewhere there must be photos of that flag. If not, at least the name survived. "Libre" was a statement against the war that just had broken out.

So to answer the question, under which flag the (Bela)Russian composers - and not only those! - could appear that didn't want to adopt the flag of their own country anymore: Vera Menchik won the Women World Chess Championship in 1939. Sonja Graf took the second place. But maybe her flag should be revived now, nearly a century later. "Libre" could serve as an universal sign for freedom today, just as it did in 1939.
 
 
(Read Only)pid=22521
(40) Posted by Andrey Selivanov [Sunday, Mar 13, 2022 14:48]

1. The Schachmatnaja kompositsia" (Chess Composition) magazine will continue publishing of originals as always.
2. The best active Russian solvers - Danila Pavlov (World and European solving Champion) and Danila Moiseev (8th place in WCSC-2021) - are 19 years old, Ural Khasanov (3rd place in WCSC -2021), Egor Sokolov (20 th place in WCSC-2021) and Marina Putintseva are 15 years old, Anna Shukhman (Russian women Champion), Anastasia Chekina and Nikita Ushakov (30th Place in WCSC-2021) are 12 years old.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22522

Read more...
Page: [Previous] [Next] 1 2 3 4 5 6

MatPlus.Net Forum General Concerns about the future of WFCC