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MatPlus.Net Forum Internet and Computing Olivvv*e
 
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(1) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Thursday, Dec 30, 2021 15:16]

Olivvv*e


Where do I put best v and * data? If I just write
stip='#2 v*', it goes correctly where it usually
is in a printed diagram, but I can't run Popeye
in that case. @Dimitri: Methinks a clever hack
would be modifying Olive slightly to ignore
everything after a blank in the stipulation field.
(Yeah, I know that "v" and "*" exists as Popeye
options, but e.g. "Try" outputs ALL moves that are
uniquely defended against, and not all intended v.)
 
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(2) Posted by Dmitri Turevski [Thursday, Dec 30, 2021 19:33]

So, basically, you couldn't find a way for Popeye to do "v" (whatever it is) and therefore you suggest that Olive should implement some workaround "hack"?

Why not request that Popeye can do "v" in the first place?

(please don't, popeye and olive can actually do "v")
 
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(3) Posted by Joost de Heer [Thursday, Dec 30, 2021 21:32]

'option try defence 4' will give all tries that have up to 4 refutations. It's up to the composer to go through all defences to see which ones make sense as try.
 
 
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(4) Posted by Geoff Foster [Thursday, Dec 30, 2021 22:53]

For tries with several refutations, Popeye's "option PostKeyPlay" is useful, although it has to be run separately for each try. Just enter the position after the try has been made, and use "option PostKey".
 
   
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(5) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Friday, Dec 31, 2021 10:42]

@Dimitri: I'm only thinking practical. :-)

Popeye is a program to *solve* chess problems.
Olive is a) a GUI for Popeye, but also b) a possibility
to save problem sets and possibly c) generate "content".
(For example I'm almost done with writing a little
Python proggie to convert an *.olv file into HTML for
my online problem collection.)

The two purposes (solve and manage) should not be
conflated, and obviously the ability of Popeye to
generate a set play and to find tries (the latter
not necessarily identical with the author-intended!) can't
(and shouldn't) be used to place a "v*" under the
diagram - that's a GUI thing.

Dimitri, you are the developer, I'm just the user
seeing an use case, come up with a half-baked idea
to handle it and not thinking it through further -
I know 99% of my spontaneous ideas are bullshit
and I accept your unalienable right to declare them so :-)

Still, my original question remains. Assume I have
a problem with a set play. What is the best way
to write this fact into the Olive mask? A tag
Set in the comment field? Or indeed write it into
the stipulation tag "#2 *" (after a problem has been
solved and the solution put in the field for it,
Popeye is never needed a second time again anyway)?
 
   
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(6) Posted by shankar ram [Friday, Dec 31, 2021 11:48]

Hauke's asking for Olive to ignore any text after a space following the stipulation (in the "stipulation" option). This could be utilised for things like "*", "v", "2.1.1.1" and the like, which can appear below the diagram generated by Popeye. WinChloe has a similar optional field. It may not be too difficult to program this into Popeye and Olive, if Thomas and Dmitri find the time and interest!

More difficult would be an option to filter out only the dual free variations from the solution, which I once enquired with Christian!. This too could perhaps be done for both WinChloe and Popeye, by feeding the solution into a text processing script using Sed or a similar utility.
 
   
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(7) Posted by Dmitri Turevski [Friday, Dec 31, 2021 12:46]

 QUOTE 
Assume I have a problem with a set play. What is the best way to write this fact into the Olive mask?

The best way to document this fact would be to include the set play with the solution of your problem.
But you are probably asking about the instruction for the solver.

I agree that there is a semantic difference between
- Instruction for the solving software to look for set play (tries)
- Instruction for the human solver to look for set play (tries)
However, this difference is so subtle that I don't see it practical to make a distinction.

 QUOTE 
This could be utilised for things like "*", "v", "2.1.1.1" and the like


Olive already has separate fields and even toolbar buttons for set play, tries and intended solutions. Not sure about "the like", but probably for those as well.
 
   
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(8) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Friday, Dec 31, 2021 17:41]

Dmitri: Obviously you were right (options menu, clickable,
appear under the diagram as "Setplay" and "Defense n").
I only begun using Olive as storage and simply haven't
tested all gizmos yet - must be my age. :-) It is not the
v and * a problemist is accustomed to, but since it is
absolutely the same thing and probably just costs me one line
of Python to change into v and * appearing in my HTML code -
close enough, as the meme says :-)
 
   
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(9) Posted by Dmitri Turevski [Friday, Dec 31, 2021 20:00]

Happy New Year!

By the way, is this "*/v" notation properly documented somewhere?
"v" is particularly interesting because I think I have seen some sources use "√" (square root symbol).
 
   
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(10) Posted by Joost de Heer [Friday, Dec 31, 2021 20:43]

 QUOTE 

By the way, is this "*/v" notation properly documented somewhere?

Codex mentions v for tries (21.(g)).
 
   
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(11) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Saturday, Jan 1, 2022 10:39]

@Dmitri: You are not seeing things, think I saw √ too.*
(Possibly a stunt to find it fast - for example,
I estimate the -low!- probability of a wrong number
of v under a SCHWALBE diagram to be at least as high as a
diagram error. Thus it might be helpful to not use "v".)

* I dimly remember you don't have too look further
than MatPlus :-) I checked: Nope, but not "v" either,
but a checkmark ✓.
 
   
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(12) Posted by Dmitri Turevski [Sunday, Jan 2, 2022 13:31]

Cool find, Joost!
Ironically, 21.c2 of the Codex also mentions "v" for "version".

@Hauke
So, anything v-shaped then? The links in the "DL Archive" seem to be broken for me.
 
   
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(13) Posted by Dmitri Turevski [Sunday, Jan 2, 2022 16:09]

 QUOTE 
Possibly a stunt to find it fast


Challenge accepted: https://imgur.com/a/kZviclD
 
 
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MatPlus.Net Forum Internet and Computing Olivvv*e