MatPlus.Net

 Website founded by
Milan Velimirović
in 2006

16:31 UTC
ISC 2024
 
  Forum*
 
 
 
 

Username:

Password:

Remember me

 
Forgot your
password?
Click here!
SIGN IN
to create your account if you don't already have one.
CHESS
SOLVING

Tournaments
Rating lists
1-Apr-2024

B P C F





 
 
MatPlus.Net Forum General PCCC reconstruction
 
You can only view this page!
Page: [Previous] [Next] 1 2 3 4 5 6
(41) Posted by Vladimir Tyapkin [Monday, Jan 11, 2010 16:03]

Here is my translation of http://www.selivanov.ru/newss/?act=show_news&id=195.

Decisions of the FIDE Presidential Council in Bursa

January 10, 2010

A meeting of the FIDE Presidential Council was held in the Turkish city of Bursa on January 4-5, 2010.
Mr. Uri Avner was invited to discuss the issue of "creation of a commission for chess composition".
FIDE President Kirsan Ilyumzhinov held a special meeting to address this issue on January 4.
Present at the meeting were First Vice-President of FIDE G. Makropoulos, FIDE General Secretary I. Leong, Vice-President of FIDE A. Selivanov, Honorary Vice-President of FIDE I. Gelfer, and U. Avner.
Uri Avner was asked to consider joining FIDE after the establishment and registration of a new organization for chess composition. Another option, proposed by FIDE President, was to reinstate PCCC in the FIDE structure.
In the meeting on January 5, the proposals of Vice-President Andrey Selivanov were supported by the Presidential Council. We publish them here in full with the goal of providing fans of chess composition with objective information.

It seems appropriate at the (present) moment to defer a decision to establish a FIDE Commission for Chess Composition considering the discussion during the FIDE Congress in Greece (October 2009) in order:
a) to avoid controversy among fans of chess composition,
b) to organize a more systematic work process. Thus, FIDE will be able to do a lot for the development and popularization of chess composition within the framework of a "chess composition" special project.


Decisions:
1. To support the creation of a new international organization for chess composition and inclusion of this organization as an associate member of FIDE.
2. To continue the promotion of chess composition within the framework of the special project "chess composition", which will already have been established. This project would not duplicate activities of the future international chess problem organization in any degree but promote chess composition in the world.
3. To consider it advisable to organize chess composition activities within the framework of the special FIDE project "chess composition" (which is solely the FIDE initiative for the development of chess composition).
4. To approve the calendar of events for 2010:
- 2nd World Cup for chess problem composition (before September 1, 2010)
- 1st World Cup for chess problem solving (February 6-7, 2010 in Moscow, Russia)
- Olympic Tourney for chess problem composition (before September 1, 2010)
- Olympic Solving Tourney (September 2010, Khanty-Mansiysk)
- 53rd WCCC (October 9-16, 2010 in Crete, Greece)
Responsible - A. Selivanov
5. To provide 7000 Euros from the FIDE budget for the special project "chess composition" for ongoing activities.
Responsible - Treasurer of FIDE, N. Freeman
6. To prepare proposals to the FIDE Handbook of chess composition.
Responsible - A. Selivanov
7. To hold a tender for FIDE album publication.
Responsible - A. Selivanov
8. To prepare a decision to include the newly established international organization for chess composition as an associate FIDE member.
Responsible A. Selivanov
9. To prepare a draft agreement with the newly established organization regarding cooperation in chess composition activities.
Responsible A. Selivanov.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4533
(42) Posted by Vladimir Tyapkin [Monday, Jan 11, 2010 17:16]; edited by Vladimir Tyapkin [10-01-11]

 QUOTE 
Another option, proposed by FIDE President, was to reinstate PCCC in the FIDE structure.

It would be interesting to know if this option still on the table.

 QUOTE 
7. To hold a tender for FIDE album publication.

That one looks alarming.

I have one comment on the process. If I remember the Problemist report correctly, commission of 6 was created during the congress in Rio. Its goal is to explore possible options on the PCCC future and how to deal with FIDE and report its findings on the next Congress. Uri Avner was not a member of this commission. Why FIDE chose to invite him?
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4534
(43) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010 11:36]

Vladimir, the working party of the six delegates appointed during the congress are meant to review the provisionally accepted ICCU new Statutes (valid until the end of 2010) and to present their work in WCCC 2010. They are not supposed to represent ICCU in the discussions with FIDE.

The invitation by the FIDE President was after the below quoted letter, which was also sent to the delegates for their information:

 QUOTE 
December 2nd, 2009
GENS UNA SUMUS!
To the President of the FIDE
Re: The organisation of world chess composition

Dear President Kirsan Ilyumzhinov,

We should like to ask for your help on a matter of some urgency.

The PCCC (the Permanent Commission of the FIDE for Chess Composition) has existed since 1956, promoting composition and solving throughout the world, organising official international tourneys, publishing collections of the best compositions from each three-year period, awarding international composing and solving titles, and dealing with other matters of interest to problemists and endgame study enthusiasts. At our annual congress, the official World Championships in the Solving of Chess Problems (WCSC) are held, for both individuals and national teams.

For more than 50 years we have enjoyed complete autonomy within the FIDE. Our relations with the FIDE have been characterised by uninterrupted mutual respect and trust. We proudly grant and hold FIDE titles, the contests which we organise are FIDE tournaments and FIDE World Championships, and our periodical anthologies of chess composition are the FIDE Albums.

At present 40 countries are full members of our organisation. Every four years, the delegates of these countries elect among themselves a Presidium consisting of one President and three Vice-Presidents. Our Statutes lay down that it is our President who is responsible for all contacts with the FIDE.

In March 2009, however, the FIDE Secretary Mr Leong informed us that the PCCC is no longer a part of the FIDE but instead is considered an independent international organisation, affiliated to the FIDE.

Consequently, at our congress in Rio de Janeiro (October 2009) the delegates accepted provisional new Statutes, with modifications resulting from our independent status. Our provisional new name is ICCU (International Chess Composition Union). Definite new Statutes and a final name are expected to be decided on at our next congress (Crete 2010).

Although the FIDE in effect obliged us to create an independent organisation, we did not (and still do not) see any real need for this change. That is because the arrangement established between us, namely our status as an autonomous permanent commission within the FIDE, served everyone so well for more than 50 years.

The ICCU wishes to keep close contacts with the FIDE, with cooperation on matters of common interest.

Lately, however, we have learned of new steps which may jeopardise our friendly relations. Mr Selivanov (FIDE VP) has informed us that these steps may include the creation of another Commission for Chess Composition within the FIDE, and that this will be decided upon at the meeting of the FIDE Presidential Board in January 2010. We find it hard to believe that the FIDE would go along with such a step, for it would convey an undeniable message of mistrust.

This unilateral step could only mean a division in the peaceful world of chess composition, with obviously negative implications, perhaps leading to the existence of several rival international organisations.

It is clearly in the interest of both the FIDE and the ICCU to avoid any possible split among chess composers as well as solvers, and so we see an urgent need for a dialogue between us, to find a constructive way to prevent this.

Of course, to be effective, this dialogue should be carried out by participants who basically trust each other. We ask you, Mr President, to join us in setting up such a dialogue.

Yours sincerely,
Uri Avner, President of the ICCU (FIDE IGM of Chess Composition), Israel
Klaus Wenda, Honorary President (FIDE IM), Austria
Bedrich Formanek, Honorary President (FIDE Master), Slovakia
John Rice, Honorary President (FIDE IM), U.K.
Hannu Harkola, 1st Vice President, Finland
Marko Klasinc, 2nd Vice President (FIDE Master), Slovenia
Kjell Widlert, 3rd Vice President (FIDE IM), Sweden

Thank you in advance for your attention to this matter.

After the meeting, delegates received on 9th of January, the below quoted email:

 QUOTE 
Dear PCCC/ICCU Delegates,

The letter to the FIDE President, a copy of which you received previously, yielded an invitation from Mr Ilyumzhinov to me for a meeting at Bursa, Turkey, on January 3rd-6th 2010. The following is a brief report of this meeting:

Apart from Mr Ilyumzhinov and me, present at the meeting were: Deputy President Mr Georgios Makropoulos, General Secretary Mr Ignatius Leong, VP Mr Zurab Azmaiparashvili, VP Mr Andrey Selivanov and Hon VP Mr Israel Gelfer.

During this meeting, I drew the attention of all participants to the danger of division within the world of chess composition which was inherent in Mr Selivanov’s proposal to give him the authority to carry out separate chess composition activity bearing the name of the FIDE.

Almost everyone present agreed that such division should be avoided. After some discussion (also in another, smaller group) about future FIDE/ICCU relations, the following two options were offered to us:

Either we continue with our present process of becoming an independent organisation affiliated to the FIDE, or we resume our previous status as the Permanent Commission of the FIDE for Chess Composition (PCCC).

This, together with the dismissal of Mr Selivanov's proposal, is included in a resolution by the Presidential Board of the FIDE.

Therefore I think that this is good news! Further, I can inform you that in general during my conversations in Bursa (on and off the record) I found both openness and great understanding of our needs on the part of most FIDE officials, including President Ilyumzhinov, whom we should especially thank for his support and friendship.

Last but not least, dear Delegates, I should be glad to receive your opinions specifically about the path which we should take regarding the future of our organisation, but also about any other matter mentioned above.

Best wishes for the New Year 2010,
Uri Avner, PCCC/ICCU President

 
   
(Read Only)pid=4535
(44) Posted by Ian Shanahan [Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010 13:44]

Bravo Uri (et al.)! Thanks for your labours. For what it's worth - barring any future negative developments - it seems sensible to me to revert to the PCCC cognomen. This would at least show evidence of the stated desire for unity with the FIDE.
 
 
(Read Only)pid=4536
(45) Posted by Vladimir Tyapkin [Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010 14:39]; edited by Vladimir Tyapkin [10-01-12]

Harry, thanks a lot for provided information. So, FIDE proposal to resume to the previous status is still on the table? According to Selivanov's statement, it was deferred.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4537
(46) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010 16:42]; edited by Harry Fougiaxis [10-01-12]

As far as I can see, there are two options presented to us by FIDE (the sentence in bold in Uri's recent email), and one of them is that we switch back to the previous status as PCCC. The email does not mention any (extraordinary) restrictions or conditions to be imposed on us, in case that we wish to revert; personally I was (pleasantly) surprised by this proposal, as the information that we had so far in this forum (and elsewhere in private discussions) was that "PCCC wanted to be married with FIDE, but remain a virgin and play the game following its own rules".

http://matplus.net/pub/start.php?px=1263310372&app=forum&act=posts&fid=gen&tid=501&pid=3322&mark=yes&#n3322
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4538
(47) Posted by Vladimir Tyapkin [Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010 16:48]

The problem is that Selivanov's statement reads differently. So, whom to trust?
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4539
(48) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010 16:50]

Seeing that Selivanov is Vice President of the FIDE, I guess he should be trusted more.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4540
(49) Posted by Vladimir Tyapkin [Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010 17:05]

Well, I am not sure. If you remember last year famous thread, Selivanov's statement I translated was not exactly what FIDE had actually decided.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4541
(50) Posted by [Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010 17:32]

It's a pity the minutes from Rio haven't been published ... I think there would be useful information there.
Or have they? I can't find them in the usual place.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4542
(51) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010 17:49]

No, they have not been published yet.
http://www.sci.fi/~stniekat/pccc/wccc2009.htm
 
 
(Read Only)pid=4543
(52) Posted by Vladimir Tyapkin [Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010 18:13]; edited by Vladimir Tyapkin [10-01-12]

"Official Business at Rio" from The Problemist (No. 6, 2009 p.232) may be counted as last year minutes.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4544
(53) Posted by Georgy Evseev [Wednesday, Jan 13, 2010 07:43]; edited by Georgy Evseev [10-01-13]

Well, I have talked with Andrey Selivanov, and his report about Bursa very much differs from Uri's. Sometimes, it even seems that they were present on different meetings).

Some of his statements:

1. There was no "Mr Selivanov’s proposal to give him the authority to carry out separate chess composition activity bearing the name of the FIDE". So, it could not have been accepted or dismissed.

2. All his real proposals were published on Ural Problemist site after they had been accepted. (the text is cited in this thread)

3. The "statement in bold" from Uri's letter contains nothing new. And yes, there are some prerequisites (well known to everyone interested, really).

To "become an independent organisation affiliated to the FIDE" the organization have to be created normally. That is, it should have normally elected (or selected) governing body, real Statutes, and probably (I am not sure) registration.

To "resume our previous status as the Permanent Commission of the FIDE for Chess Composition (PCCC)" the Statutes should not contradict to FIDE Statutes, and this means, in the first place, that Chairman (no presidency!) of PCCC is not elected but assigned by FIDE President.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4546
(54) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Wednesday, Jan 13, 2010 09:11]

Two most important officials of chess composition are in stark disagreement as regards past events and future prospects.
Business as usual.
Let me express my deep frustration.
 
 
(Read Only)pid=4548
(55) Posted by Alexander Leontyev [Wednesday, Jan 13, 2010 12:59]; edited by Alexander Leontyev [10-01-13]

Quote: Siegfried Hornecker [Monday, Jan 11, 2010 12:07] "If we composers decide so, the championships are official, and not if someone decides so who has no significance at all for chess composition. Why does anyone even listen to such a foolish old man, or to his organisation?
We are the ones who decide! Not them! FIDE has no meaning whatsoever for us!
PS: Ah, now I see on point 5. We sell our souls for 7000 Euro"

And is it possible to name concretely, at least partially, who are they "we" which decide? Personally I am a usual sportsman (solver) and never accepted any significant decisions in chess composition world, nobody and never ask me about my opinion, and I never transferred the right of my voice to another person and the more so did not sell my soul.
Also I didn't understand who is a foolish old man.
А можно назвать конкретно, пофамильно, хотя бы частично, кто это "мы", которые решают? Лично я обычный спортсмен-решатель и никаких значимых решений в шахкомпозиции никогда не принимал, никто моего мнения никогда не учитывал и не спрашивал, и право на свой голос я никогда не передавал другому лицу и тем более не продавал свою душу.
Также не понял, кто это старый глупый мужчина.
 
 
(Read Only)pid=4549
(56) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Wednesday, Jan 13, 2010 14:41]; edited by Sarah Hornecker [10-01-13]

 QUOTE 
And is it possible to name concretely, at least partially, who are they "we" which decide?

"We" are the people: Composers, solvers, etc.
Those who are affected.

In Germany, or in Europe, people have a lot of power if they organise together. I think it's not different in most of the world like you can see with the PCA founding. So the best method if disagreeing with FIDE or PCCC is to found another organisation, even though it might risk splitting the chess world in two parts again (at least for composing/solving/etc).

There of course is the financial issue then but that might be a small problem if chess composition is really popularised like e-sports is in several parts of the world, and we get good sponsors.

 QUOTE 
Personally I am a usual sportsman (solver) and never accepted any significant decisions in chess composition world, nobody and never ask me about my opinion, and I never transferred my voice and the more so did not sell my soul.


Yes! This is exactly what I say above! We are not asked, the decisions are just made. In times of internet it can't be difficult to find more democratic solutions. The line about transferring your voice must however be a mistranslation. Selling souls is in Germany a proverb for giving up his honor for money - or other things. I think there was a movie that referred to that proverb ("Per un pugno di dollari") but I didn't see it so I can't confirm.


 QUOTE 
Also I didn't understand who is a foolish old man.

Ok, Milan has replied to my mail now. I apologize for that part. (I had before I posted removed all that was about the person I meant - essentially several lines - and this was accidentally left over. It is not a chess composer or from this scene anyway.)
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4551
(57) Posted by Valery Gurov [Wednesday, Jan 13, 2010 16:50]

Dear Siegfried,
If you find the real sponsor for a chess composition (at least 100 thousand dollars a year) that you will select lifelong President PCCC/ICCU :-)))
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4552
(58) Posted by Alexander Leontyev [Wednesday, Jan 13, 2010 21:34]; edited by Alexander Leontyev [10-01-16]

Quote: “In March 2009, however, the FIDE Secretary Mr Leong informed us that the PCCC is no longer a part of the FIDE but instead is considered an independent international organisation, affiliated to the FIDE”.
Mr. Selivanov informed that FIDE LIQUIDATED PCCC (http://www.selivanov.ru/newss/?act=show_news&id=164). But to register the international organisations FIDE has no right. FIDE can only attach to itself organization, that ALREADY REGISTERED in any country.
Цитата: "В марте 2009, однако, Секретарь FIDE г. Леонг сообщал нам, что PCCC больше не часть FIDE, но вместо этого считается независимой международной организацией, присоединенной к FIDE".
Мистер Селиванов сообщал, что ФИДЕ ЛИКВИДИРОВАЛО PCCC. А вот регистрировать международные организации ФИДЕ не имеет никакого права. ФИДЕ может лишь присоединить к себе УЖЕ ЗАРЕГИСТРИРОВАННУЮ в какой-либо стране межд. организацию.

“Decisions:
4. To approve the calendar of events for 2010:
- 53rd WCCC (October 9-16, 2010 in Crete, Greece)
Responsible - A. Selivanov”
Quote 46) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis “the information that we had so far in this forum was that "PCCC wanted to be married with FIDE, but remain a virgin and play the game following its own rules".
It turns out that FIDE liquidated the wife-virgin, transformed her (PCCC) into a virtual ghost and wishes to (...) with this ghost sometimes.
Получается, что ФИДЕ, ликвидировав свою жену-девственницу и превратив ее в виртуальное привидение, хочет иногда с этим привидением (...) .

____
(...) = Deleted by Administrator. Please choose your metaphores more carefuly!
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4554
(59) Posted by Vladimir Tyapkin [Wednesday, Jan 13, 2010 22:12]

Alexander, your post has reached a new low in this topic which is going steadily downhill.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4555
(60) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Wednesday, Jan 13, 2010 22:50]

Ok, then let's take it uphill with this question:

On PCCC website I read:
 QUOTE 
Album 2007-2009: announcement 1.1.2010, closing date 1.10.2010, most directors and judges have been nominated.


What has happened to this? I don't see any announcement. Is accepted e-mail or only print?
 
   
(Read Only)pid=4556

Read more...
Page: [Previous] [Next] 1 2 3 4 5 6

MatPlus.Net Forum General PCCC reconstruction