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MatPlus.Net Forum General PCCC bypassed... again
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(1) Posted by Milan Velimirović (+) [Saturday, Jun 26, 2010 03:40]

PCCC bypassed... again

This post is started as a response to:

Hewever, since it extends the discussion to some other subjects I opened a new thread. I am aware that open speaking can and usually does cause some angry reactions but I cannot help it, this is what I think.

Guy: who has given to Andrej Selivanov the authority to organize this "World Cup" and to award these titles?

Finally somebody asked this question. I asked the same the PCCC delegate of my country it as soon as the competition had been announced. He couldn't give me the answer, but as he took part there I assume it didn't bother him. As a matter of fact everybody has right to organize the competition and name it as he wish. And everybody has right to decide whether he will or won't take part in it. However, who realy missed to do the right thing at right moment was the PCCC itself. It is still not late that PCCC take its standpoint about this: does it recognize this competition as official or not? (Although it should have been better if there was an immediate reaction.)

It seems that there is a habit recently to bypass the PCCC on important issues. The organizers of the "World Cup" did it, but now, as far as I can conclude from the information I got from Serbian delegate, the Presidium of PCCC itself is doing the same by organizing the Jubilee tourney without a valid decision by the whole Comission. As in any organization, it is not a duty (and right) of the Presidium to make decisions, the Presidium should only take care if and how decisions are realized. It should be in the Statutes (if it's not then it should be added!). Why rush? Is it because this is the election year? Remember that there are money prizes promised. Suppose that the competition is not finished before the Crete congress and that a new Presidium is elected there. Whose obligation would be in that case to pay out the prizes?

P.S.: Meanwhile the post by Kevin arrived...

In a normal universe, FIDE would take swift action against a V.P. who constantly discredits their brand.
And, PCCC would take swift action against FIDE, for allowing this V.P. to perpetually circumvent (if not usurp) proper authority.

Legally, "this V.P." didn't do anything wrong. Besides, many eminent names were involved in it as officials, judges and participants. And frankly, these were very successful tourneys. It's now too late, but it is a pity that the PCCC didn't show a diplomatic windsom and did its best to put the competition under its (co-)patronage. Unfortunately, the communication was not possible becuse of, we are all aware of it, the animosity between the PCCC Presidend and the "V.P." in question. Therefore, despite both are very good friends of mine and despite I have a great respect for both of them, I would like to see somebody else as a new President of the PCCC. And few younger (say, under 50) persons in the Presidium.
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(2) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Saturday, Jun 26, 2010 09:09]; edited by Miodrag Mladenović [10-06-26]

Kevin wrote:

Only PCCC should have the authority to sanction a global tournament with such an official title.
Otherwise, I must consider this only the equivalent of any JT / MT.
It would be a farce if I organized (and appointed judges to) a "Global Composing Championship Tournament of 2010."

Since I lived 10,5 years in the States I do know that this happens in all other sports too. In NBA whenever there is a final game they are advertising it as "The World Championship in Basketball". Even when Yugoslavia won "The World championship" in Indianapolis they did the same. Same is in American football, baseball and other sports. I think that this practice came from the USA.

And then I do agree with Milan that PCCC presidium is making decisions without asking delegates about their opinion what is also completely wrong. Who gave the rights to Mr. Avner to take away organization of WCCS in Bulgaria and give it to Greece? Yes I know, there were some unofficial explanations why this happened. However I’d like to hear the official explanation about who made decision, when and why? PCCC minutes from the congress did not give the explanation for this decision. It’s a shame.
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(3) Posted by Kevin Begley [Saturday, Jun 26, 2010 12:12]; edited by Kevin Begley [10-06-26]


"...It is still not late that PCCC take its standpoint about this: does it recognize this competition as official or not? (Although it should have been better if there was an immediate reaction.)"

Is it not too late for PCCC to retroactively sanction a tournament?
Would your suggestion not be unfair to the numerous composers who, for good reason, opted out of this non-sanctioned competition?
Might it set an inherently foul precedent for a sporting federation to retroactively sanction such an event?
[Especially an event which pretended to have high stature -- on the level of the FIFA World Cup.]

I certainly might support a future "FIDE World Cup (sanctioned by PCCC)," designed to coincide with the FIFA World Cup.
And, in staggered years, a "FIDE Women's World Cup (sanctioned by PCCC)," would certainly be nice to observe!

But, quite frankly, I think it is a mistake to model our tournaments to correspond to sporting events.
Far better would be for PCCC to establish a schedule for our own set of "major" tournaments.


I will concede that poor titles have definite roots in the USA (home of the future Miss Multiverse Beauty Contest).
But, surely the seeds of this bad practice must precede July 4, 1776.

Regardless the origins, Mr.Selivanov's tournament need not emulate the worst qualities of NASCAR.
And FIDE's reputation needn't be compared to bad scripts in Professional Wrestling.

Which brings me back to Milan,

"...I would like to see somebody else as a new President of the PCCC. And few younger (say, under 50) persons in the Presidium."

Funny how FIDE constantly operates in such an under-handed fashion, and our only outlet is to replace our PCCC President.
I cannot fathom how anybody would want to be the PCCC President, given all the back-stabbing and cowardice they must confront.

Why don't you also call for the removal of the FIDE V.P.?
Remember who tried to eliminate PCCC entirely (without putting the matter to a vote)?
If Mr.Selivanov is not removed from all levels of interaction, are you certain these problems will not simply begin anew (regardless who leads PCCC)?

Sometimes I wonder if folks might prefer to elect a puppet regime.
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(4) Posted by Guy Sobrecases [Saturday, Jun 26, 2010 15:01]

Alas, it seems that the current PCCC (ICCU) President is not the first one to suffer this kind of hostile actions, already managed by the same person. I heard that similar situations have already occured in the past. Is it true?

I agree with Milan, Miodrag, and Kevin that many things can be improved in the PCCC: I am afraid that what is mainly missing is not a will, or even a new head on the top, but volunteers to manage the actions.

A surprising point is also that there is no information on the FIDE website about this "World-Cup". No announcement, no results. Am I wrong?
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(5) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Monday, Jun 28, 2010 00:11]

Personally, I see a something good and something bad in both camps.

In my view, the main failure of PCCC is the failure to act/react in timely manner to any events and/or developments. FIDE World Cup is the only one of many examples. Many others were already presented on these pages - and it does not seem only a matter of specific persons, it is rather process set-up. [I would refrain from naming failure(s) of FIDE Special Project as I still think PCCC should be able to reform and should be the leading force - and I criticize to offer my view what improvements might be useful.]

I am trying to take the best available. FIDE World Cup just after the announcement seemed like a good chance to participate in high-profile tourney with probably nice output. And the result (fairy section) surely did not disappoint.

On the other hand, I am trying to help PCCC as much as I am able - in the recent past acting as Album director, designated Album judge, WCCT themes suggestor, etc. But without serious reform under new president/presidium and without re-establishing some normal relationship with FIDE (probably recognition of Special Project existence would be a must) PCCC's role is bound to be diminished.
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MatPlus.Net Forum General PCCC bypassed... again