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MatPlus.Net Forum General FIDE Olympic tournament in Composing 2016
 
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(1) Posted by Andrey Selivanov [Sunday, Aug 23, 2015 11:49]

FIDE Olympic tournament in Composing 2016


http://www.wfcc.ch/competitions/composing/fide-olympic-composing-2016/
 
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(2) Posted by Petko Petkov [Sunday, Aug 23, 2015 13:00]

The tournament is without Fairy section !!?? This looks like discrimination on one of the most relevant sections in chess composition! I urge the organizers to correct his mistake!
 
 
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(3) Posted by Joost de Heer [Sunday, Aug 23, 2015 13:10]

No retros section either....
 
   
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(4) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Sunday, Aug 23, 2015 19:45]

No fairies, no retros and no joint compositions. The last part has always been the case, but personally, I dislike tourneys that aim to reward composers, rather than compositions.
 
   
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(5) Posted by Torsten Linß [Sunday, Aug 23, 2015 20:01]

The 2008 olympic tourney (Dresden, organised by Schwalbe) was also run without fairy section, but joint compositions were admissible.
 
   
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(6) Posted by Andrey Selivanov [Sunday, Aug 23, 2015 20:05]

The Conditions of the tournament is the right of organizers
 
   
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(7) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Sunday, Aug 23, 2015 22:29]; edited by Kostas Prentos [15-08-24]

Thank you Torsten. I confused the FIDE Olympic tourney with the FIDE World Cup. Both follow the same philosophy, with Dresden Olympiad being a notable exception.

Andrey, it is true that the organizers of the Chess Olympiad (together with the FIDE Chess Composition special project) have the right to choose any sections they want. On the other hand, fairy composition has gained huge popularity in recent years, maybe not so much in Azerbaijan as in the rest of the problem community, so I see Petko's complaint as reasonable. Although I do not care if the name of a tourney contains the words "Olympic", "World", "FIDE" or a combination of them, there are many among us who do care, and they feel deprived of the possibility to win an Olympic title.
 
   
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(8) Posted by Cornel Pacurar [Sunday, Aug 23, 2015 23:10]

I am slightly curious what the WFCC Presidium official position on this is. After all, "the tournament is coordinated with the WFCC Presidium and is a part of the joint efforts by FIDE and WFCC for the popularization and development of chess composition worldwide."

Also, from personal experience with FIDE-labelled tourneys I find the last paragraph of the tourney announcement a bit misleading. "In each section medals for the first to third places, prizes, honourable mentions and commendations will be awarded, as well as certificates for the prizes signed by the President of the FIDE Mr Kirsan Ilyumzhinov.". The certificates part seems to be true if one attends the World Congress of Chess Composition - if not, you are at the mercy of the organizers, who are probably more concerned about badges than about fulfilling their obligations.
 
 
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(9) Posted by Petko Petkov [Monday, Aug 24, 2015 08:51]

The elimination of sections Fairies and Retros in the Olympic tournament - 2016 contradicts the basic motto of FIDE - GENS UNA SUMUS! This elimination is contrary to the principles of international Olympic movement at all. From another standpoint, here we have a human rights violation - the authors of fairy and retro-problems are eliminated inadmissible from their Olympic arena!
 
   
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(10) Posted by Andrey Selivanov [Monday, Aug 24, 2015 10:06]

For retro and fairies organized quite a few tournaments.
By the way, in the competition "Pobeda-70" also did not have such sections and did nobody protest.
 
   
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(11) Posted by Julia Vysotska [Thursday, Aug 27, 2015 14:43]

Andrei, the question is not about number of chess composing tournaments for fairies+retros, but about the level of them.
Of course, there're many private competitions featuring favorite themes/genres of the organizers.
And POBEDA 70 JT was organized by Russian Chess Federation, so it is a choice of concrete country again.

I agree with Cornel Pacurar's point here, as far as this is a "joint efforts by FIDE and WFCC for the popularization and development of chess composition worldwide", how would WFCC explain why some genres are out of this "popularization"? Especially, at the time when the popularity of fairy genres is growing stronger every year.
 
   
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(12) Posted by Andrey Selivanov [Thursday, Aug 27, 2015 17:03]

Julia, each competition has its own specifics, which the organizers lay in the conditions of competition. In this contest organizers ( and especially the Azerbaijan chess Federation) believe that competition in this form promotes chess composition. And if we will impose fairies, it will only scare the organizers. And let's be honest - many players do not perceive the tale. And the process of bringing to chess composition should be smoother.
Only begin to understand the fairies, who loved and understood chess composition.
 
   
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(13) Posted by Cornel Pacurar [Friday, Aug 28, 2015 08:08]

Andrey, could you please explain the rationale behind your comments?

Is this "FIDE Olympic Tournament in composing” a tournament for chess players or for chess problem composers? As you should know, chess composition doesn’t really need to serve the ends of “normal” chess to be justified - last I checked, Barulin’s response to Botvinnik and Spokoinyi, that is "a violation of composition’s autonomy to require it to serve competition" (Shakhmaty v SSSR, July 1936), was still valid.

With regard to “Only begin to understand the fairies, who loved and understood chess composition”: you are not suggesting that fairies are not part of chess composition, are you?

Moreover, you are not suggesting that the organizers believe that in a form including fairies and retros the competition would not promote chess composition, are you?

And how about helpmates and selfmates, why would these be more "equal" than fairies and retros? After all, as Marjan Kovačević noted in his introduction to Rastko Ćirić's "Fairy Chess" manual, helpmates and selfmates are also "not only useless, but also even dangerous to the logic of competitive chess"!
 
   
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(14) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Friday, Aug 28, 2015 09:15]

hm... Actually helpmates are logical enough for the chessplayers. I know many who perceive the black helpmoves as blunders. Especially in short helpmates it is easy to think of it as "What are the two worst moves in this position". Only after solving they will realise that apparently good moves (like capture of white pieces or checking) are the worst possible blunders enabling white to mate! Of course composing them is a different question altogether.
 
   
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(15) Posted by Andrey Selivanov [Friday, Aug 28, 2015 11:53]

For mr. Pacurar!
As for helpmates and especially the selfmates - see the history of the composition and realize that they began to promote chess players (Petrov, Shumov, Janish and other).
I have respect for fairy fairies and retro, and in the journal of Chess Сomposition, I make more sections are fairies and retro.
 
   
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(16) Posted by Cornel Pacurar [Friday, Aug 28, 2015 17:49]

@ seetharam
hm... Do you believe that Retros are not logical enough for chess players, and if so, would this be a valid reason for their exclusion from a "Olympic Tournament in composing" for chess problem composers?

@ Andrey
The (unabridged) history of chess clearly shows that fairies are neither a "bourgeois fantasy" nor a recent development. In fact, Fairies (conditions, stipulations, pieces) have been around for at least 750 years, and played a significant role in both the propagation and the development of the game of chess.
 
   
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(17) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Friday, Aug 28, 2015 21:14]

@ Cornel Pacurar. I entirely agree with your view and Petkov. Fairy chess and retros are very much part of the Chess composition world. That a tourney recognised by FIDE wants to ignore them is sad. If it is a question of organiser not willing, we in India are quite willing to organise it - though we have no Retro composer nowadays!
 
   
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(18) Posted by Darko Šaljić [Saturday, Aug 29, 2015 07:13]

@AllOfYouGrimmBrothers

Fairies are not CHESS (game) Problems.
 
   
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(19) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Saturday, Aug 29, 2015 08:48]; edited by Andrew Buchanan [15-08-29]

I would ask Mr. Selivanov to further explain the logic behind the exclusion of fairies and retros from the tournament. There may be a perfectly reasonable justification. It's a pity if a wonderful event like this is dogged by controversy from the start, through failure to supply the explanation.

What it comes down to is this. Historically, fairy & retro problems would rightly have had no place in such an event, because as genres they were immature. But in the judgment of many, including myself, these popular genres have come of age and demonstrate some staggering achievements, which detract nothing from more orthodox genres. If, in the feeling of the organizers of this event, there is something still lacking in these genres, it would be helpful if this can be crystalized into words, and this may even spur fairy and retro composers to greater achievements.

What we have so far:

 QUOTE 
The Conditions of the tournament is the right of organizers.

While surely true, I don't feel this sets a good tone, and it explains nothing.

 QUOTE 
For retro and fairies quite a few tournaments.

For directmates, helpmates. selfmates and studies there are also 'quite a few tournaments', indeed more than for fairy or retro genres, so this can't be a full explanation.

 QUOTE 
By the way, in the competition "Pobeda-70" also did not have such sections and did nobody protest.

This was a more minor tournament, and maybe it wasn't so well publicized? But if prior protest is necessary then I hope you acknowledge the protests happening now and can help ensure that fairies and retros can form a part of future FIDE Olympic tournaments.

Looking forward to your response! :)
Thanks so much!
 
   
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(20) Posted by Andrey Selivanov [Saturday, Aug 29, 2015 11:19]

I hope that in the next FIDE tournaments on composing we can add fairies and retro.
 
   
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MatPlus.Net Forum General FIDE Olympic tournament in Composing 2016