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| (1) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Thursday, Sep 21, 2023 09:54] |
Ever saw a "v" mark under a helpmate?
Of course a helpmate can have a try, but then it's not because of
Black playing smartass, but because of objective obstructions.
Some helpmate themes require a try, e.g. the "hesitation theme"
(usually not a h# theme, but made such in WCCT 2).
A Maslar would need a try to be "zweckrein".
Still, I yet have to see a v mark under a h# where under a 2#
it is almost mandatory. Did you see one? (With a set * mark
things are different, those you may find under a h# too.)
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| (2) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Thursday, Sep 21, 2023 10:51] |
Helpmates with hidden tempo-tries can be marked "v", "vv", ...
The "v" in h# means that there is a full-lenght virtual phase.
There are such examples in the WinChloe database.
Helpmate Analyzer can find such tries if you check the "Tempo-tries" checkbox.
Examples of themes with hidden tempo tries: "Lindner 2 theme", "Bukovinszky theme", "Garai theme", "Bukovinszky-Garai theme", "Complete helpmate".
In the case of dual avoidance, you also have tries, but such h# are not marked with a "v".
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| (3) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Thursday, Sep 21, 2023 15:09] |
An example of a "complete" helpmate with two tries:
Darvas, Robert
Probleemblad, 95 TT, 1954
Prize
 (= 5+7 )
h#2*vv
1...Bd1 2.Sf3 Bc2#
1.Sd3 Be2 2.Se5 Sd6#
Hidden tempo-tries (hidden zugzwang):
1.Sd3 Kg2 2.?? Bf3#
1.f3 ?? 2.f4 Bg6#
Two virtual phases are part of the solution.
In YACPDB and PDB the solution to this h#2 is incomplete:
https://www.yacpdb.org/#45558
https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/P0523166
In the WCCT-2 award, only E130 has virtual phases, so only this h#2 can be marked with a "v".
https://www.wfcc.ch/wp-content/uploads/2.WCCT-1980-1983.pdf
Other h#2 contain only simple tries.
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| (4) Posted by Jakob Leck [Friday, Sep 22, 2023 05:27] |
E1259 superproblem 2023
E1231 superproblem 2022
E598 superproblem 2018
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| (5) Posted by Marcos Roland [Friday, Sep 22, 2023 08:33] |
This is another example of virtual play:
Marcos Roland
SuperProblem, TT 219, 2019
Commendation
 (= 3+8 )
h#5 v
1.Tf7? Sxf8 2.Lh7 Se6 3.Lg8 Sf4 4.Kf8 (??) 5.Te8 Sg6#
1.Lxa2! Sxf8 2.Lg8 Se6 3.Rf7 Sf4 4.Kf8 Ka2 5.Te8 Sg6#
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| (6) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Friday, Sep 22, 2023 09:18] |
@Jakob: Do you have a more "direct" link? Searching by problem number
doesn't work for me.
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| (7) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Friday, Sep 22, 2023 10:58] |
Search among the originals of the corresponding years:
E1259 http://superproblem.ru/htm/tourneys/annual-it/2023/helpmates_2023.html
E1231 http://superproblem.ru/htm/tourneys/annual-it/2022/helpmates_2022.html
E598 http://superproblem.ru/htm/tourneys/annual-it/2018/helpmates_2018.html
E598 does not have a 'v' mark in either WinChloe (723792) or PDB (P1362165). I also doubt whether such tries can be considered a virtual phase.
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| (8) Posted by Nikola Petković [Friday, Sep 22, 2023 11:56] |
Here is one such problem I coauthored this month:
https://www.yacpdb.org/#602866
2 tries are in phase c), but we didn't put "v" though ...
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| (9) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Friday, Sep 22, 2023 12:22] |
@Nikola,
You forgot to describe the twins:
b) Move a1 h1
c) Remove a1 Add Black Sh2
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| (10) Posted by Nikola Petković [Friday, Sep 22, 2023 16:11] |
@Viktoras thanks, I just fixed it!
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| (11) Posted by Joose Norri [Saturday, Sep 23, 2023 12:45] |
I take the opportunity to advertise my P1071800, https://www.yacpdb.org/#566246. The way I like the solution written, because only in that way it is the real solution, is that you have unprecise setplays in each part. But trying to make them real fail exactly for the same reason in each twin.
 (= 8+11 )
a) 1...♗g4 2.♗×g4 ♔×g4 3.♔e4 ♘f6#
Bh3 to d3
b) 1...♘g5 2.♕×g5+ ♔×g5 3.♔e6 ♗×c4#
So that's what there is in PDB. But 1.Sf8? and Sf6+ in a) and the analogous Bishop moves in b) fail for exactly the same reason. They are tries to make the set play happen.
Intellectually I still think it came off quite well, artistically, well...
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| (12) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Monday, Sep 25, 2023 00:48] |
The theme of WCCT9 h#3 asked for hideaway moves, with at least one try being mandatory. All the problems in the award are excellent.
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