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| (1) Posted by Oleg Efrosinin [Monday, Sep 4, 2023 15:46] |
65th WFCC Congress, regarding the issues discussed
To the address of the 65th WFCC Congress, regarding the issues discussed https://www.wfcc.ch/wp-content/uploads/Agenda-Batumi-WCCC-2023.pdf
I have sent the following message and suggestions on the issues under discussion:
http://www.efrosinin.ru/aa/nov/2023/To_the_President_WFCC.pdf
Your opinion? WHAT THE DELEGATES OF THE 65th WACS CONGRESS WILL DECIDE:
"TO SPITE GRANDMA'S EARS TO FREEZE"
OR MAKE THE COMPOSITION AVAILABLE TO JUNIORS ALL OVER THE WORLD?
My website: http://www.efrosinin.ru/
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| (2) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Monday, Sep 4, 2023 16:45] |
I became interested in chess composition when I was a schoolboy. Most of all I liked the helpmates and selfmates. Children are very receptive to innovation. If they are not interested in these genres as children, they will not be interested in them later. Apparently, those who in childhood missed the right time to fall in love with these genres are now suggesting that these genres be abandoned.
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| (3) Posted by Oleg Efrosinin [Tuesday, Sep 5, 2023 14:16] |
Dear Viktoras! And am I talking in my address about not introducing schoolboys to these wonderful genres? It's about something else. Not about a single introduction to chess composition, but about the mass, from the simple, according to the rules of FIDE chess, and further to the complex heterodox and fairy tales. If the school starts to study higher mathematics first, and then arithmetic and algebra, schoolboys will not even know the multiplication table.
As the coaches tell me, an attempt to tell children about helpmates and selfmates ends with the tears of a child. How is it that in chess school they teach him to win chess, but here you have to play giveaway and checkmate yourself? Parents say: we don't need it, don't cripple the child's psyche!
I propose, quote: "And then, depending on the success of the tournaments within the FIDE, only in a separate tournament, offer heterodox."
Moreover, to popularize these genres, I also propose: "The remaining sections should be published in electronic format as the "WFCC Album" and distributed free of charge. This will expand the popularization of these sections».
And let the juniors get acquainted with the masterpieces of heterodox and fairy tales for free! Moreover, these genres are not studied in chess schools.
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| (4) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Tuesday, Sep 5, 2023 16:23] |
Good luck with high quality editing for free...
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| (5) Posted by Oleg Efrosinin [Tuesday, Sep 5, 2023 17:45] |
In my opinion, when there is nothing to say, it is better to keep loudly say nothing!
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| (6) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Tuesday, Sep 5, 2023 18:23] |
The WFCC does not regulate what is taught in schools. International tournaments are another matter. Juniors also participate in tournaments organized by the WFCC and show no worse results than adults. If there were different rules for children, they would not be able to participate with adults.
It is not true that helpmates and selfmates are higher mathematics. They are even easier to solve, it's just a different genre.
I think, playing chess and chess composition are different sports and should not be lumped together. It's like hockey and figure skating. We don't have to force solvers to play chess or players to solve problems. Everyone has the right to choose, even a child, which sport to engage in.
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| (7) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Tuesday, Sep 5, 2023 20:17] |
Chess problems are completely different from over the board chess games.
I came across a fascinating video today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4UbOxXegqA
I knew nothing about yo-yo but this intelligent video really gets to the heart of the nature of judging for competitive artistic hobbies. There is a definite parallel with chess problem composition.
All the best,
Andrew
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| (8) Posted by Joost de Heer [Tuesday, Sep 5, 2023 21:01] |
It fits with the current Russian trend to want to go back to the glorious past, a past where once heterodox chess was forbidden...
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| (9) Posted by Oleg Efrosinin [Wednesday, Sep 6, 2023 05:15] |
Joost de Heer. You have incorrect information. Helpmates and selfmate were in the USSR team chess composition championships.
Also, helpmates and selfmates were and are in the championships of the USSR and Russia for solving chess compositions.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%82_%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A0_%D0%BF%D0%BE_%D1%88%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8
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| (10) Posted by Kenan Velikhanov [Wednesday, Sep 6, 2023 05:33] |
Helpmate genre and selfmate should be in the general list. The existing rules in these genres will teach children to think in different directions. Without them, decision tournaments would be boring.I agree that not all children master all genres, but not all become the strongest chess players.This is where the talents of fireclay creativity stand out
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| (11) Posted by Oleg Efrosinin [Wednesday, Sep 6, 2023 05:48] |
Dear Viktoras! Figure skating and hockey are really two different sports. And they have independent sports federations that regulate the rules. In our case, WFCC is affiliated with FIDE and publishes "FIDE Albums". Your opinion: "I think, playing chess and chess composition are different sports and should not be lumped together". Dual?
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| (12) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Wednesday, Sep 6, 2023 09:48] |
According to Statutes of WFCC, it is an independent organization. FIDE is its partner.
Quotes from Statutes:
"World Federation for Chess Composition hereafter called “WFCC” is an association in accordance with art. 60 ff of the Swiss Civil Code."
"The WFCC aspires to establish and maintain friendly relations with other bodies that have an interest in the same goal.
In particular, the WFCC strives for a defined and friendly relationship with the World Chess Federation (FIDE). It considers itself FIDE's natural partner for all matters related to chess composition."
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| (13) Posted by Joost de Heer [Wednesday, Sep 6, 2023 13:25] |
QUOTE
Joost de Heer. You have incorrect information. Helpmates and selfmate were in the USSR team chess composition championships.
Apparently you missed a bit of history. In the 1930s, heterodox chess was officially discouraged for having no practical use.
Quote from 'Storming fortresses' (https://escholarship.org/uc/item/0s71f0cw)
Problemists were also advised that bourgeois themes should be avoided in favor of revolutionary themes. This somewhat puzzling directive actually meant that compositions were required to have a close relationship to practical play; they were
not to be fanciful. Composition was justified only when it served the ends of “normal” chess. The demand for practical chess composition was the doctrine of socialist realism applied to chess. “Formalism” (art-for-art’s-sake) in chess
composition was officially condemned.
In practice this meant that one-, two- and three-move compositions were out of favor, (they tended to be the most fanciful), while long, complicated problems (properly called studies), requiring analysis of multiple variations with differing
numbers of moves, were in favor. The most esoteric areas of composition–“helpmates,” “self-mates,” and “fairy chess,” –were officially disgraced.
[..]
The debate flared up again in early 1936, this time in the pages of the other official journal, Shakhmaty v SSSR. An article co-authored by Botvinnik and the journal’s editor, Leontii Feliksovich Spokoinyi (1900-1936), announced a crusade against formalism in chess composition, paralleling a concurrent campaign against formalism in the arts. The article argued that since the basis of political chess was practical application, composition played only a subordinate role, and it was only useful insofar as it helped to develop practical play. In the same way that chess was subordinate to the task of building socialism, existing only to serve the needs of the workers, composition was subordinate to practical chess, existing only to serve the needs of chess players. Composition for its own sake, however, had no utility and therefore could not justify its existence. Thus, any composition that did not serve competitive chess was branded as formalism, and formalism in chess composition was a grievous and unacceptable ideological error. Any composition not grounded in practical play was from this point onward “defined in two words –formalistic trickery.”
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| (14) Posted by Valery Gurov [Wednesday, Sep 6, 2023 18:24] |
Удивительные у Вас сведения о советской школе по композиции. В 20-30 годы советские композиторы открыли большое количество тем именно в двухходовке: тема Барулина, тема Исаева, защита Левмана и прочие. Лошинский был неофициально в эти же годы признан чемпионом мира по двухходовкам! А Куббель в 1928 году составил гениальную трехходовку (1 Приз, Звезда), которой и сейчас бы позавидовал любой мастер. Она лет на 50 опередила время. А Вы пишите, что в СССР уважали только многоходовые задачи и этюды. Да в СССР, вплоть до середины 60 ых годов, почти никто и не делал многоходовки :-)) А Лошинскаий и Загоруйко были лучшими в мире именно в двухходовых и трехходовых задачах.
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| (15) Posted by Joost de Heer [Thursday, Sep 7, 2023 07:34] |
Yes, and people fortunately remember more those achievements than the attempts to silence them.
Somehow there's a lesson in there somewhere...
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| (16) Posted by Joose Norri [Wednesday, Sep 13, 2023 04:39] |
Re posts 11 and 12, I repeat that FIDE lists the WFCC as an affiliated organization. And FIDE states very clearly what they mean by that, see my post in the other thread. The WFCC presidium should advise the FIDE to remove the WFCC from the list, if the delegates so wish, or else they in effect agree with those requirements. What the WFCC statutes say then become empty words.
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| (17) Posted by Anatoly Slesarenko [Wednesday, Sep 13, 2023 10:53] |
What is wrong to be affiliated with FIDE?
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| (18) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Wednesday, Sep 13, 2023 12:54] |
@Joose:
Is there any legal document legitimizing WFCC's status as FIDE Affiliated Organisation? If not, then listing on the FIDE website has no legal force.
@Anatoly:
QUOTE
What is wrong to be affiliated with FIDE?
Loss of independent decision
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| (19) Posted by Joose Norri [Thursday, Sep 14, 2023 06:08] |
@ Viktoras: the FIDE claims that the listing of the WFCC has legal force.
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| (20) Posted by Oleg Efrosinin [Saturday, Sep 30, 2023 18:26] |
Please provide a link to the FIDE website where the WFCC titles are indicated.
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