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MatPlus.Net Forum General Is there any strategy in twomover?
 
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(61) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 15:22]

@Darko (#57): Couldn't agree more with the first sentence,
but I think the conclusion you desperately try to avoid in
the last one seems to be the only tenable to me.

A mathematician (and I'm one at least in my free time) has
no problems whatsover with a finding that axiom set A
allows conclusion C, whereas in set B, C is unprovable.

Assume we build a giant, universe-sized computer to crack
chess once and for all. Oh woes: the universum has exactly
one electron too few to carry out the computation (all
compression tricks have already been carried out).

A platonist says: Intercourse# that electron, chess is still
exactly solvable. Strategy is just long term tactics.
A pragmatist says: Intercourse the platonist, I call tactics
what *I* can compute, and strategy what *I* can't compute,
but still understand.
(Since I'm a platonist by heart, a pragmatist by profession
and a troll by lulz, I won't take a fixed position in this
debate. ;-)

Hauke

# Sorry for the expletive, it's a gratuituous
Monty Python reference :-)
 
   
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(62) Posted by Darko Šaljić [Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 16:29]

@Hauke
This would mean that in chess problems there is not a single strategic theme!
My question is directed the problem wich solution and variations we know.
So, there is nothing that should be solved or crack.
I would like you to use more of your imagination instead of logical mathematical analysis.
Take any of your problem and ask yourself about our topic.
When we look "King Lear" for the hundredth time, although we know all of the content and the death and blood is not true though in the end we laugh, we cry..because we recognize the relations of real life.
Chess problem is a "play" directed by the imagination and with use of all elements of mother game.
 
   
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(63) Posted by Nikola Predrag [Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 18:51]

I hardly understand what you are talking about. We can play 6-men positions forever or at least 50 moves "strategically". So, strategy means disability?! Computer would play forced sequences, so tactics means ability?!

It looks desirable to avoid such "relativity" of the concept which depends on the different abilities.

I know that many would consider a particular position of a piece (related to the other pieces) as a tactical potential. OK, but there are in the first place the strategic effects and potential.
The initial circumstances (position in chess) have the STATIC effects&potential. Strategy plans how to utilize these STATIC effects&potential and what should be changed in the circumstances to improve them to achieve better STATIC effects&potential. The changes utilize a DYNAMIC potential of the circumstances.
Strategy plans the final static circumstances which will achieve the final goal and all the intermediate static circumstances which will achieve some intermediate goals.
Strategy plans the changes but the change ITSELF is tactical.
Strategy plans the play which itself is tactical (dynamic), to achieve the new static effects&potential and a new dynamic potential.
 
   
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(64) Posted by Darko Šaljić [Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 19:17]; edited by Darko Šaljić [14-01-11]

That's what I concluded is mistake in thinking.
Here is my answer to Hauke:
"This would mean that the human inability to evulate a larger number of combinations automatically draws more strategic thinking."

With you, I completely agree, and this opinion I always had.
I try to cite other on the same perspective but I'm no good at it.
 
   
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(65) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Monday, Jan 13, 2014 18:17]; edited by Jacques Rotenberg [14-01-18]

Some decades ago, it was usual to see articles about "strategical two movers" - at least in France -. It meant mainly problems where the meaning of the "thematical" moves was havier than usual : pinnings/unpinnings, cross checks, blocks, openning/closing of lines... rather than just control of squares. Nowadays it is much less used with this meaning.

I would say to be short, and perhaps a little bit provocative :

tactical means more technical, automatic, simply calculated
strategical : requires thought, cannot be understood only by a (simple) calculation...

good example of this may be correction themes : what happens technically is not enough to understand the idea
 
   
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(66) Posted by Nikola Predrag [Tuesday, Jan 14, 2014 00:28]

It is desirable to define the nature of the elements precisely. Introduction of "relative" concepts should come only with the esthetic and artistic evaluation, which are "relative", subjective and arbitrary by default.

Control of the squares is a static element with a dynamic potential, which might be considered as strategic when it becomes a part of some plan. But this alone would make a poor (trivial) strategy. Every problem shows elementary strategy but a "strategic" problem is expected to show a sufficient complexity of the strategic elements. What might be considered as "sufficiently complex" is a matter of conventions or personal tastes. The elements themselves should be distinctively defined.

Strategy searches for the final positions which would achieve the goal, and then goes backwards, to find the possible ways to link the initial position with the convenient final positions. It is the result of exploring the whole "field" of strategic elements linked into shorter/longer intermediate manoeuvres (for achieving some convenient intermediate goals). This result is a complex PLAN, consisting of smaller intermediate plans.

Tactics is the action from the initial position (step here, step there) which connects the links of a (potential) single strategic string or connects the different strings. Tactics crucially depends on the dynamic facts of each intermediate position. Tactical sequence is a particular choice of a particular potential strategic string in a particular moment, from the whole strategic "field".

I agree with Jacques, tactics is only an executive tool of a plan, it is planned but not being a plan by itself.
An exact sequence of letters executes a word, but the meaning of the word is of an essentially different quality.
 
   
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(67) Posted by Darko Šaljić [Tuesday, Jan 14, 2014 07:26]

@Jacques @Nikola

This two last posts should be in all chess books and chess problem codex!
 
 
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MatPlus.Net Forum General Is there any strategy in twomover?