Website founded by
Milan Velimirović
in 2006

18:05 UTC
ISC 2021



Remember me

Forgot your
Click here!
to create your account if you don't already have one.

Rating lists


MatPlus.Net Forum Helpmates Test your composing imagination
You can only view this page!
Page: [Previous] [Next] 1 2 3
(1) Posted by Michael McDowell [Tuesday, Sep 7, 2010 22:10]

Test your composing imagination

What is unusual about the following problem?

(The answer has nothing to do with its similarity to a problem I composed for the Ukrainian tourney at Rio)

The Problemist, March 2010

(= 7+7 )

Helpmate in 3 (2 solutions)
(Read Only)pid=5835
(2) Posted by Guy Sobrecases [Wednesday, Sep 8, 2010 00:52]

That's nice. The construction seems clever, showing 1.Ra7+?, 1.Bg7+?, and e1=Q+?. Well done!
(Read Only)pid=5836
(3) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Wednesday, Sep 8, 2010 04:00]; edited by Siegfried Hornecker [10-09-08]

That you only built two thematical variations, while the theme itself would require four?
(Read Only)pid=5837
(4) Posted by Kevin Begley [Wednesday, Sep 8, 2010 16:47]

I can only "imagine" you are going to claim to have achieved the complete theme, based on two suspicious tries.
(Read Only)pid=5839
(5) Posted by Dan Meinking [Wednesday, Sep 8, 2010 16:49]; edited by Dan Meinking [10-09-08]

Beautiful problem, Michael! I agree with Guy's assessment: 3 distinct dual-avoidances from an "idle" wK is very good.

But... not a record. :-) Here's one with 4, my first published series problem:

DM, 4th Pr, SG 2002
(= 5+9 )

ser-h=14 (5+9) C+

Solution hidden:
1.Rf3 2.Sf6 3.Qh8 4.Bd3! 6.Bh3 7.Sg4 9.Qh1 10.Sc1! 12.Sg1 13.e2 14.f1B Rg5=
avoided: 1-3.Bd3+?; 4.Bb5+?; 1-9.Sc1? (Qa1+) 10.Sc3+?

(Read Only)pid=5840
(6) Posted by Michael McDowell [Wednesday, Sep 8, 2010 17:11]

I'll post the answer in a couple of days, to give time for more opinions. The responses so far have been fascinating, and not at all what I expected!
(Read Only)pid=5841
(7) Posted by Paz Einat [Wednesday, Sep 8, 2010 20:57]

Excellent problem !! Having composed a few H#3's I appreciate the guts of having a WQ on board. Especially when two WQ's can be available for a H#2. Superb placing of the pieces allows this to work.
(Read Only)pid=5842
(8) Posted by Dan Meinking [Wednesday, Sep 8, 2010 21:31]; edited by Dan Meinking [10-09-08]

There's at least one unit on every rank and file, seems "unusual" for a helpmate. :-)
(Read Only)pid=5843
(9) Posted by Gilles Regniers [Thursday, Sep 9, 2010 09:13]

Is it that White has a material advantage to Black?
(Read Only)pid=5844
(10) Posted by Marcos Roland [Saturday, Sep 11, 2010 02:11]

I like the problem. But that's not so unusual...
(Read Only)pid=5852
(11) Posted by Geoff Foster [Saturday, Sep 11, 2010 03:48]

It's not unusual for White to be without both of his rooks,
na na na na na,
It's not unusual to have the white king preventing cooks,
And when I see Black capturing pawns to free the queen,
It's not unusual,
It happens every day,
No matter what they say,
You'll find it happens all the time,
Pieces will never do,
Just what you want them to,
Why can't this fine problem be mine?
(Read Only)pid=5853
(12) Posted by Kevin Begley [Saturday, Sep 11, 2010 06:51]; edited by Kevin Begley [10-09-11]

Suppose the state endeavors to test the limitless imaginations of all their subjects, using multiple choice questions...
What person, after matching exactly the state's answer-key, could be so foolish as to think this validation of a "highly imaginative" nature?

My point being...
Maybe there's an exact Proofgame here.
Maybe it has two unique solutions, and when conjoined with the two helpmate solutions, it realizes a Babson Task in quadruple-Vallado form.
Would I go turning over rocks, expecting I may find such a thing? Not at all.
I don't calculate that the likely reward warrants chasing my imagination in such a direction.

I am skeptical that this "test" will provide any measure of our "composing imagination."
Much more likely, it will measure some very specific pattern matching trait.
But, I'll reserve judgment until I see what it is that I might have overlooked...

Meanwhile, I'm still quite puzzled what it is that you find so unusual in this rather nice helpmate that you've composed.
(Read Only)pid=5854
(13) Posted by Marcos Roland [Saturday, Sep 11, 2010 18:47]

Great, Geoff! Just allow me suggest to replace the second verse by something like this: "And bishops,knights,you cannot say this was not ever seen". Sounds good?...
(Read Only)pid=5857
(14) Posted by Michael McDowell [Sunday, Sep 12, 2010 18:44]

The unusual point is that I had a choice of where to place the thematic black pawn. On e2 the problem shows matching promotions, on f2 they become reciprocal promotions (of course the full idea is matching (or reciprocal) promotions with echoed queen releases and mates). I don’t think either is better than the other, but ideally I would have liked the problem diagrammed with the pawn sitting partly on e2 and partly on f2, and the solver told - "take your pick"!

The comments have been interesting, especially those that assumed that AUW must feature somewhere. I quite often see solvers’ comments about “incomplete AUWs” when it’s clear that the promotions are only part of the idea that the problem is showing. We’re in trouble if every problem containing some promotions is expected to show them all! As for the “distinct wK dual avoidances”, if that counts as thematic content then it’s completely unintentional!

Thanks to all, not least Australia’s answer to Tom Jones.
(Read Only)pid=5858
(15) Posted by Joaquim Crusats [Sunday, Sep 12, 2010 20:45]

Nice that the problem could be published. Your problem reminds me the story of the Buridan's ass.
(Read Only)pid=5859
(16) Posted by Nikola Predrag [Sunday, Sep 12, 2010 21:35]

There are various possibilities which would leave the choice to put bP at e2 or f2 and it's not unusual for such a scheme. Actually, reciprocal change is bS+wB in one phase and bB+wS in the other. That is the basis for a cyclic change (bS+wB->bB+wR->bR+wS) or (bS+wB->bB+wR->bR+wQ->bQ+wS). Reciprocity and full cycles make complementarities themselves, regardless of 2,3 or 4 pairs of promotions. Matching promotions do not lead from one phase to another and do not end where they started, so the natural sense for complementarity asks for the Babson.
Of course, 2 phases with matching promotions are quite enough for a good problem, as you have presented.
For the full idea (of matching promotions with echoed queen releases and mates) would be enough 10 pieces, but the clever construction of additional selfblock well justifies 4 extra pieces.
(Read Only)pid=5860
(17) Posted by Kevin Begley [Monday, Sep 13, 2010 03:35]

OK... this e2->f2 possibility was noticed immediately, so my imagination may prove to be functional (on some level).
However, this phenomenon is not entirely uncommon (I considered it too obvious to mention).
(Read Only)pid=5861
(18) Posted by Michael McDowell [Monday, Sep 13, 2010 06:53]

I bow to your superior knowledge. Sorry to have wasted your time.
Maybe you could post a few examples.
(Read Only)pid=5862
(19) Posted by Zalmen Kornin [Monday, Sep 13, 2010 11:25]

In a direct #3, You can show respectivelly echo Q/Q, N/N, and reciprocal Q/N and N/Q promotions in meredith form, using one white and two black pawns
(Read Only)pid=5863
(20) Posted by Michael McDowell [Monday, Sep 13, 2010 11:51]

We're talking about helpmates here, not directmates.
(Read Only)pid=5864

Page: [Previous] [Next] 1 2 3

MatPlus.Net Forum Helpmates Test your composing imagination