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MatPlus.Net Forum General Chess composers' names in various alphabets
 
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(1) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 21:31]; edited by Miodrag Mladenović [14-01-23]

Chess composers' names in various alphabets


I opened a link published on WFCC page: http://database.wfcc.ch/ and checked the names. Although idea is great and it's very good to have centralized names of all problemists I think that concept is wrong. Unless I missed something it looks like there is only possibility to enter name in one language script. I think this is wrong. There should be original script name (UNICODE) and then transcript in some latin script understandable to majority of problemists.

Currently because there is only one field for given and one field for family name half of the Serbian/Russian problemists are spelled in Cyrillic script and half of them are spelled in Latin script. This is wrong. For example Marjan Kovačević is entered with "Cyrillic script" as "Марјан Ковачевић". I am entered in Latin script as "Miodrag Mladenović" (not in Cyrillic as "Миодраг Младеновић").

I am recommending to have two fields for both given and family names. There should be language original script and then Latin script version of name. That would be much more useful because if I see some Russian name in Russian magazine in Cyrillic font I'd like to be able to find Latin version of name if I want to publish name in some article in some western language script.

Also, I'd like to have other way name conversion (from Latin to Cyrillic script) so that I can translate name if I see it in Russian magazine in Cyrillic script.

Also, I know that there is Ancona project with Ancona handles for all problemists (my handle is ML5M). It would be nice to store this handle on the database and than it will be easier to search for problemists if this handle is known. I am not sure why there are separate projects with almost same content.

Actually if Ancona handle is added as a column, potentially it's possible to have multiple rows for same problemist (same Ancona handle but different alphabet). That way database can contain same name in multiple alphabets (one row per alphabet with same Ancona handle).

Once again, this is great idea and effort to have all names in database but I think that issue should be fixed at the beginning to avoid lots of rework later on.
 
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(2) Posted by Steven Dowd [Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 22:45]

What is the Ancona project? I did a Google search, but didn't find anything relevant.
 
 
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(3) Posted by Dejan Glisić [Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 23:07]; edited by Dejan Glisić [14-01-23]

Some informations about Gjuro (Gyorgy) Szabo were changed again :-( Lot of people worked on database, maybe too much... Or too little, because a lot of data missing?
 
   
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(4) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Friday, Jan 24, 2014 00:39]

big databases generated by the problemist union is an already old dream that proved regularly till now not to be efficient
 
   
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(5) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Friday, Jan 24, 2014 08:38]

Oops, I misspelled the project name. It should be Ankona. Here is a link: http://www.ankona.ch/about

Sorry for this mistake.
 
   
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(6) Posted by Kevin Begley [Friday, Jan 24, 2014 16:00]; edited by Kevin Begley [14-01-24]

Some time back, I began making my own database (started out with just composers, but then I expanded it to include solvers, otb players, correspondence players, etc -- including considerable relevant data).
I used a variety of alphabets, with the intent to make it universal.

In my experience, this required more than simply using multiple alphabets (for given and family name) -- I found it critically important to also include alias names... both hidden (e.g., including common misspellings works much better than any algorithmic approach), and explicit (e.g., nicknames).

I would like to make much of this freely available, at some point... but, because my db covers such a vast spectrum of material (names, photos, titles, countries, birthdates, problems, games, eco openings, elo ratings, quotes, problem themes, fairy piece movements, fairy conditions, aims, stipulations, books, etc etc etc...), considerable work remains.
I do not subscribe to the premature release (read: for profit alone) philosophy of product development.
And, obviously, some of this (particularly photos) may run into copyright issues, if published.
Beyond that, I would prefer not to publish any personal data which goes against the wishes of an individual.

The point is this: I am only one programmer. So, when I read claims that the entire chess problem community will never manage to provide even a small fraction of the database material I have collected, well, I hope you will all forgive me for laughing.
It reminds me of the silly argument I encountered, when trying to rally support for a fairy codex, which suggested (without a shred of evidence) that establishing rules for even sanctioned fairy elements might be mathematically impossible.
Some people just want an excuse for doing nothing!

FWIW:
My interest in developing such a database began with the idea of making a better website for problem solving (especially non-orthodox problems).
To be successful in such a venture, a considerable database is necessary.

Later my interest shifted to a variety of alternative applications; But, all the while, one thing remained clear: it would greatly benefit all chess enthusiasts if such a database (and related tools) were freely available to all variety of would-be chess publishers.

That said, it is unfortunately hopeless trying to rally the "elected" representatives of the chess problem community to aid in this cause.
They have no interest in establishing a fairy codex, they stubbornly refuse to address a wide variety of failed classification schemes, and they consistently prove unable to even produce a simple definition for their own ridiculous terminology.

Truth be told, the chess problem community offers no credible leadership on any of the matters currently confronting the future of chess problems.
All responsibility is quietly abdicated unto the programmers, leaving no intelligent authority to dare encourage positive change (due to a palpable fear of upsetting the delicate corruption of the FIDE title process).

History will say that YOU (the passionate enthusiasts) had the power to change course, sooner.
 
 
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(7) Posted by Kevin Begley [Friday, Jan 24, 2014 16:00]; edited by Kevin Begley [14-01-24]

oops.
 
 
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(8) Posted by Thomas Maeder [Sunday, Jan 26, 2014 20:47]

Hi Misha

Thanks for mentioning the "re-upped" collection here.


> Unless I missed something it looks like there is only possibility to enter name in one language script.

Luckily, you did miss something. Any number of "writings" in the same alphabet are possible. FWIW, your entry has two writings in the Latin alphabet. One can easily add one or more writings in the Cyrillic alphabet.


> Currently because there is only one field for given and one field for family name half of the Serbian/Russian problemists are spelled in Cyrillic script and half of them are spelled in Latin script. This is wrong.

It depends on how they are labeled.

For example, let's look at your entry a bit more closely. It has two "writings":
Mladenović, Miodrag (Latin, native)
Mladenovic, Miodrag (Latin, German transcription)

A lot of this seems correct to me - the only thing that seems incorrect to me (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the first Latin writing is labeled "native", while it's in fact the result of applying "Scientific transliteration" to the native Cyrillic writing of your name.


In addition, your entry says "Own alphabet: Latin", which seems wrong to me as well.


> For example Marjan Kovačević is entered with "Cyrillic script" as "Марјан Ковачевић". I am entered in Latin script as "Miodrag Mladenović" (not in Cyrillic as "Миодраг Младеновић").

The collection consists of the input of many volunteers. Obviously, the knowledge of each these volunteers varies.


You could be a volunteer, too! :-) Register and I you will be granted editor rights, e.g. to provide the native Cyrillic writing of your name.

In addition, I can make modifications directly on the database provided I am given useful recipes. For example, would you please have a look at the entries with Country=SRB and Own Alphabet=Latin? Am I right to assume that for all these persons, Own Alphabet should read Cyrillic instead?

And at the writings with Method=native and Alphabet=Latin for composers with Country=SRB? Would it be correct to change to Method=Scientific transliteration?


> Also, I'd like to have other way name conversion (from Latin to Cyrillic script) so that I can translate name if I see it in Russian magazine in Cyrillic script.

I'm happy to provide new alphabets or "methods"; but I'm afraid that I don't understand what you are asking for in this sentence; can you elaborate and/or give an example?


> Also, I know that there is Ancona project with Ancona handles for all problemists (my handle is ML5M). It would be nice to store this handle on the database and than it will be easier to search for problemists if this handle is known.

I can easily do that.

Useful suggestions such as this one are very welcome!


> I am not sure why there are separate projects with almost same content.

History.

And purpose - AFAIK the Ankona project's purpose is providing correct writings.

For what it's worth, Iļja Ketris is a volunteer on the "Chess composers' names in various alphabets" as well.
 
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MatPlus.Net Forum General Chess composers' names in various alphabets