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MatPlus.Net Forum General Construct the longest sequence before a stipulated capture
 
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(1) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Monday, Feb 17, 2020 04:41]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [20-02-17]

Construct the longest sequence before a stipulated capture


Here's another construction challenge for you all! :-)

Awhile ago, I had a fun idea. What is the longest sequence, in a legal position, before White can capture a stipulated Black piece? Promoted pieces and duals are allowed, although is preferable to have only standard pieces and minor duals.

I previously managed 159 moves with Andrew Buchmann's help (Thanks again!: https://chess.stackexchange.com/q/27762/15543). But I have recently, at long last, managed to produce a longer one that is an adaptation of Blathy's #290. (Note that I consider the King's triangulation duals to be minor.)


WTM, Capture Ba8 In 217 Moves
(= 11+12 )


1. Rd1+ Bd4 2. c4+ Kd6 3. Ka5 Bb7 4. Ka4 Ba8 5. Ka3 Bb7 6. Ka2 Ba8 7. Kb1 Bb7 8. Kc1 Ba8 9. Kc2 Bb7 10. Kb1 Ba8 11. Ka2 Bb7 12. Ka3 Ba8 13. Ka4 Bb7 14. Ka5 Ba8 15. Kb6 h4 (And so on and so forth) 216... Bb7 217. Kxb7

Who among you can create a longer sequence? Good luck and good fun to all!
 
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(2) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Monday, Feb 17, 2020 10:25]

TL/SS, capture the king :-)
Another question. May Black "defend" his piece by suicide?
 
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(3) Posted by ichai [Monday, Feb 17, 2020 10:29]

what about checkmate ?
It seems you mean that white should avoid to checkmate the black king. It would be a specific point here.
you can also consider that when the king is captured all black pieces are captured in the same time, so that your aim would be understood: capture or checkmate.
 
 
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(4) Posted by ichai [Monday, Feb 17, 2020 10:33]

It seems to be the same question Hauke asked.
 
   
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(5) Posted by Jakob Leck [Monday, Feb 17, 2020 11:02]

Rewan, what about 1. Rd1+ Bd4 2. c4+ Kd6 3. Ka5 Bb7 4. a8=Q Bxa8 5. Kb6 h4 6. Ka7 etc.?
 
   
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(6) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Monday, Feb 17, 2020 15:00]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [20-02-18]

Checkmate does not count, as the piece to be captured must be kicked off the board,

And you are right Jakob, the scheme doesn’t work. I suppose the length now reverts back to my 159.
 
   
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(7) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Tuesday, Feb 18, 2020 12:17]

Rewan, please make it precise:
Longest DIRECT sequence to capture (Black defends with all devices,
including actively running into checkmate) or longest HELP
sequence to capture? I think you mean the former, but the
latter, whereas surely much shorter, is also interesting.
And of course w or w/o promoted material may be stipulated,
so that we have a few records more :-)

P.S. Ceterum censeo there should be a website collecting all
chess mathematical records, sorted thematically. No, I don't
volunteer :-), I haven't access to all the stuff. Even don't own
the Gik/Fabel.
 
   
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(8) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Tuesday, Feb 18, 2020 14:15]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [20-02-18]

Hauke, I was going more for direct, but I suppose help would be just as fun to do.

For help, here is a starting bid of 51 moves, using a stolen Karl Fabel helpmate position.

BTM, Help-Capture Pc3 In 51 Moves
(= 11+10 )


With standard pieces only, 40 is possible via stealing a Blathy scheme.

WTM, Help-Capture Bd6 In 40 Moves
(= 9+9 )

 
   
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(9) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Sunday, Feb 23, 2020 21:05]

Jakob, does this work as a correction to my previous try?

WTM, Capture Ba8 In 230 Moves
(= 10+14 )


Note: If Bc8, Nxc8# is allowed since the Bishop is covered. Checkmate and stalemate are allowed only if the checkmating/stalemating move captures the stipulated piece.
 
   
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(10) Posted by Jakob Leck [Friday, Feb 28, 2020 23:39]

Rewan, how do I know? I'm not a machine. ;)
But seriously, you've removed the cook I found in your earlier version, however there is one thing I'm still worried about: After playing to the first promotion on the h-file, what happens after 55.Rxh1 Bc3 56.Rd1+ Bd2?
57.Ra1 seems like a good try, but after a5 I'm getting nowhere fast.
 
   
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(11) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Wednesday, Mar 4, 2020 17:46]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [20-03-04]

Even if the Pa6 is removed for one less triangulation trip, the scheme again appears to not work...
 
   
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(12) Posted by Jakob Leck [Wednesday, Mar 4, 2020 19:57]

If you don't mind losing some moves, maybe a black Pc3 (+wPc4 and bKd6) could resolve the troubles? Of course, every triangulation would be shortened by two moves.
 
   
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(13) Posted by Joost de Heer [Thursday, Mar 5, 2020 06:41]

That would lead to an illegal position.
 
   
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(14) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Thursday, Mar 5, 2020 17:42]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [20-03-05]

Nice idea Jakob, and I may have a fix for that Joost,

WTM, Capture Ba8 In 184 Moves(?)
(= 10+14 )


EDIT: Diagram edited for to replace wpe3 with bpe3.
 
   
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(15) Posted by Jakob Leck [Thursday, Mar 5, 2020 22:50]; edited by Jakob Leck [20-03-05]

Isn't the Pe3 supposed to be black? Otherwise it'll just get captured and we have the same kind of trouble on the other side (or, even worse, black plays e3 and releases the Ba8 from captivity). So probably the bPa6 can't stay.
 
   
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(16) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Friday, Apr 3, 2020 18:28]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [20-04-03]

I was messing around when I should have been sleeping last night, and I hit upon another idea.

Capture Ba8 In 208 Moves (?)
(= 10+14 )


If Kd2? later on to go after the Black pawns with the king, then f1=Q! Rxf1 and Bg7-Black’s bishop can now not be pinned and Black forces will be loose. Also, if Black ever plays Bxc3?! to try to loosen the Ba8 by capturing on e4, than White calmly plays bxc3 and Rd1+ next move, and the light-square bishop will be forced to allow itself to be captured.
 
   
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(17) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Friday, Apr 3, 2020 18:50]; edited by Siegfried Hornecker [20-04-03]

EDIT: Nevermind, I thought it was a seriesmover.

EDIT2: Diagram from March 5 has another solution? 1.Ra1? Bxf8!, but 1.Rd1+! Bd4 2.Ra1! threatens 3.Bxe7+, and:
3.-Kxe7 4.Sc8+ and 5.Rxa8
3.-Bxe7 4.Bxc7+ Rxc7 5.Sc8+ and 6.Rxa8
I don't see what Black can do against that threat?
 
   
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(18) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Friday, Apr 3, 2020 18:54]

No problemo Siegfried! The scheme I’m using is stolen from Blathy’s 290-mover, just for a fun fact. : )
 
 
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(19) Posted by Joost de Heer [Friday, Apr 3, 2020 21:57]; edited by Joost de Heer [20-04-03]

1. Sab5 ab5 2. Ra1 Bc6 3. Sb5 Bb5 4. Bc7 R/Bc7 5. Kb5.

Or am I missing something?
 
   
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(20) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Friday, Apr 3, 2020 22:42]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [20-04-04]

You’re right. A simple fix is Pa6->a2 for 199 moves

Like so:

(= 10+14 )

 
   
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MatPlus.Net Forum General Construct the longest sequence before a stipulated capture