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MatPlus.Net Forum General The h#5 Double Excelsior
 
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(1) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Thursday, Mar 5, 2020 20:28]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [20-03-05]

The h#5 Double Excelsior


The pure double excelsior, in a helpmate, is done in 5 moves. This limits White to Queen and Knight promotions, and Black with Rook, Bishop, and Knight. All togther, 6 combinations can be done-Qr, Qb, Qn, Nr, Nb, and Nn.

Nn and Qn have been done, but with two promoted pieces in each situation. There is no need to show the Nn diagram here. Regarding Qn, P1095231 is the best so far without promoted pieces with just two solutions as far as I know (Could the same be done for Nn at all?).

Gerd Rinder, Die Schwalbe 1969
h#5
(= 8+8 )


Amazingly, the combination Qb has been done without promoted pieces, perhaps the only time it has been done in this arena!

h#5
Ryszard Nojek, Problemkiste 1996
h#5
(= 10+6 )


The combinations Qt and Nt are considered to be impossible as far as I know, even with promoted pieces. They are easy to do with Rex Multiplex though. (These are not meant to be sound, just to show the idea.)

h#5

(= 7+8 )


h#5
(= 9+9 )



The final combo, Nb, has eluded me. It should be possible with at least a modification to the existing Nn or Qb schemes. P0559534 is the only one I found, a version of the 1965 Nn scheme, but it is cooked. Does anyone know of a sound Nb problem, legal and promoted pieces allowed?

Feel free to contribute more and similar problems, whether of others or your own.
 
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(2) Posted by Jakob Leck [Thursday, Mar 5, 2020 23:09]

Have a look at P0568940.
For this kind of thing searching in the pdb is quite convenient, I used:
STIP='h#5' AND (SOL='5. _1=L%8=S' OR SOL='5. _x_1=L%8=S') AND NOT G='Fairies'
 
 
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(3) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Friday, Mar 6, 2020 00:34]

Jakob, I did just that myself before making this post. While P0568940 comes closes, the Nb sequence does not count since the bp starts on a6, and not on a7.
 
   
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(4) Posted by Dragan Stojnić [Friday, Mar 6, 2020 20:48]; edited by Dragan Stojnić [20-03-07]

MILOMIR BABIĆ
THE PROBLEMIST 2000

k12p2p2p4P2P2K5p1
p5P1P3PPP5SS2B1
H#5 (11+6)

Qs Excelsiors.
This helpmate is composed many time ago, but author sent entry in bad time, because NATO attack on Serbia(1998-99) it is prolonged for publication at The Problemist 2000.
However, it is certainly the best double-Excelsior h#5 ever, while S-promotion is more acceptable as challenge at all.
 
   
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(5) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Friday, Mar 6, 2020 21:56]

Dragan, the diagram that comes out doesn’t seem right. Are you sure you put in a correct FEN? The position I’m getting solves as a h#4 with no sign of an excelsior.

(= 9+8 )

 
   
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(6) Posted by Dragan Stojnić [Friday, Mar 6, 2020 23:29]; edited by Dragan Stojnić [20-03-06]

Oh, sorry. Correct setting-
h#5
M.Babic The problemist 2000
kg5 sc1 sd1 bg1 pa5c2d2d5e2e3g3 (11)
ka8 pa6d6e4f7g4 (6)

1.f5 c4 ... 5.dc1S c8D#

similar as in Nojeks problem, but however different play and different black promotions
 
   
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(7) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Saturday, Mar 7, 2020 05:00]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [20-03-07]

Many thanks Dragan! It is nice to see that the task was finally accomplished orthodoxly 40 years after Rinder's 1969 problem!

However, according to PBD, your source is merely a reprint.

P0577469
Gerhard Pfeiffer
Norbert Geissler
Problemkiste 1999
After Ryszard Nojek
h#5
(= 11+6 )



(Note the that this type of double-step by the Black pawn is similar to this Nn 2005 Nojek problem: P1072087. Note that this is a superseding of P1072087, and itself was soon superceded by P1095234.


The history of the Qn combo is a long one. After Rinder, it seemed that the next known attempt was one that used the same matrix, but it was unfortunately (and uniquely) cooked.(Later represented as a 2-solution joker via P1095231.)

P1201323
Milan Velimirovic
3 Mat (Belgrade) 11/1974
h#5, cooked
(= 6+5 )



A long time later, a promoted piece was ingeniously removed.

P1197933
Holger Helledie, Danicum 79 07/1995
h#5
(= 6+7 )


Then Nojek's 1996 h#5 came along, and the form was finally achieved 3 years later based on his work-an obvious step that merely took some time.
 
   
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(8) Posted by Dragan Stojnić [Saturday, Mar 7, 2020 12:34]

h#5 double excelsior was challenge,but very limited as idea. With promoted pieces composition lost the quality and it is not the same paradox in compare to achievement without promoted pieces.
With slow-down double excelsior it is more interesting, and of course it require h#6 or 7 form.
Good example-
Milomir Babić
Schach 2003
h#7(2+11)
kf1 ph2
ke4 Bd4Bg4 Se5 pc7 e3 f23456
1.c6! h3 2.c5 hg... 6.c1s g8s 7.sd3 sf6#
if 1.c5? Black lost a tempo for self-block on d3
(if 1...h4?? 5...h8s white need 4 moves to f6, 5...h8d??)
 
 
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MatPlus.Net Forum General The h#5 Double Excelsior