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MatPlus.Net Forum General #2 combinative seperation in miniature
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(1) Posted by Eugene Rosner [Friday, Aug 29, 2014 15:24]

#2 combinative seperation in miniature

Hi All-
trying the online collections, yacpdb, and schwalbe's PDB to check for possible anticipation of an original I just received. what's the best way to search for this? yacpdb only returned two problems(only one a miniature) and i can't find the correct theme prompt in the Schwalbe site. Thanks in advance!
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(2) Posted by Frank Richter [Friday, Aug 29, 2014 15:26]

The best way is to ask Udo Degener directly.
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(3) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Friday, Aug 29, 2014 16:16]

yacdp has option to check in PDB also after entering position.
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(4) Posted by Eugene Rosner [Friday, Aug 29, 2014 17:29]

thanks Ram, a neat feature I haven't used yet-I will check it out! an email to Udo is on the way-thanks Frank!
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(5) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Friday, Aug 29, 2014 21:12]

This one by Maleika is quoted by Milan in the encyclopedia. b2k2n1/1B3p2/3K4/8/8/8/4Q3/8
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(6) Posted by Geoff Foster [Saturday, Aug 30, 2014 00:15]

Ian Shanahan is aware of every example of combinative separation in miniature. If he happens to be the author of the problem sent to Eugene, then it is original!
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(7) Posted by shankar ram [Wednesday, Sep 3, 2014 14:56]

Used to be interested in this theme.. Starting from Gooderson's First example, published in one of the instalments of TRD's "Systematic Terminology" series of articles in the old 1940s BCMs.
Did a couple myself - 3 fold - one with black half pin.
Of course.. Maleika has done a prodigious amount of work on this.. including miniature versions..
Did anybody attempt a five fold version? .. using some fairy condition, board or stipulation obviously.. 5x4x3x2= 120 variations!
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(8) Posted by shankar ram [Wednesday, Sep 3, 2014 16:20]

If you have winchloe, you can search there..
I counted around 10 or more miniatures..
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(9) Posted by Ian Shanahan [Thursday, Sep 4, 2014 06:49]; edited by Ian Shanahan [14-09-04]

Hi Eugene. But are all your miniature examples TOTAL c.s. - i.e. no black moves duplicating the same combination of white mates?
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(10) Posted by Ian Shanahan [Thursday, Sep 4, 2014 06:57]; edited by Ian Shanahan [14-09-05]

@Shankar Ram. Yes, I know your (unique?) half-pin rendering of the theme. If memory serves, Maleika composed 3 examples of total c.s. miniatures, but many others where the c.s. is PARTIAL, or where not all of the thematic mates are threats - a much easier task. Like you, I've never encountered a 5-fold example.
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(11) Posted by shankar ram [Thursday, Sep 4, 2014 07:25]

Hello Ian!
Don't know if my half pin rendering with 3 mates is unique..
If Maleika put his mind to it, he could probably do a 4 mate version with half pin!
Like you, I do feel combinative separation as a theme should have some rules:
- All combinations should appear (except, perhaps the one where NONE of the 3 or 4 mates appear)
- Each combination should be forced by an unique black move

Maleika has discovered the "impure" version where there are 2 primary + 1 secondary (or vice versa).. Nice.. but..

Some of the problems in Winchloe are tagged as combinative separation.. but these are just problems where some duals appear.. the full theme is not present.. nor do they obey the rules stated above.. this must be a weakness in the Winchloe "theme discovery" mechanism..

I think Maleika has also done a few examples where each combination appears exactly twice after different black moves..

Nice to see that this theme is still alive and kicking.. and that judges are still awarding prizes to it..

I've not seen anybody attempt it with a fairy condition/board/stipulation/pieces.. Obviously uncharted territory.. Who will do a star trek? :-)
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MatPlus.Net Forum General #2 combinative seperation in miniature