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MatPlus.Net Forum Competitions AWARD in JT A. Kirichenko-60 (helpmates)
 
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(1) Posted by Vitaly Medintsev [Saturday, Dec 26, 2015 15:20]

AWARD in JT A. Kirichenko-60 (helpmates)


Preliminary Award in JT «Anatoly Kirichenko-60» (helpmates) has been published - http://chesscomposer.ru/doc/AWARD_JT_Kirichenko-60_2015_helpmates.pdf
 
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(2) Posted by ioannis kalkavouras [Saturday, Dec 26, 2015 18:18]; edited by ioannis kalkavouras [15-12-26]

Happy New Year, Vitaly. The overall impression of the award is nice (j particularly liked No 115-3rd Prize by Jorge Lois), but again the question of artificial positions, usually lengthy miniatures with precise but lifeless play, is being raised. By this remark, j do not refer to a specific problem or composer, as there is a pleiad of problems with these features (there are also problems with lively play in the same section too), in the miniature section, but j wonder if it's about time a new framework of evaluation to be arranged, in order to have a clear distinction between 'human' and 'artificial'.
 
 
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(3) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Saturday, Dec 26, 2015 18:43]

The third prize Nefyodev (No.60) is also a delight. I never thought that AUW can STILL be shown in such a beautiful scheme!
 
   
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(4) Posted by ioannis kalkavouras [Saturday, Dec 26, 2015 19:27]

You are right Seetharaman! No 64 by V.Nefyodov, 4th-5th prize, as equal, is excellent too.
 
 
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(5) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Sunday, Dec 27, 2015 22:19]

I would be interested in understanding what is meant by lifelessness in this particular genre by other composers. I can give examples of my own positions (all fairy helpmates) that can be considered lifeless (named boring in one of my own commentaries):
http://jurajlorinc.com/chess/m145_150.htm#uloha1
http://jurajlorinc.com/chess/m157_164.htm#uloha5
http://jurajlorinc.com/chess/m181_185.htm#uloha5
http://jurajlorinc.com/chess/m217_221.htm#uloha5

One of the problems (guess which one) has entered FIDE Album nevertheless. All were composed with much help of computer, but I can ask - which long helpmate is nowadays composed without help of computer?
 
   
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(6) Posted by Evgeni Bourd [Sunday, Dec 27, 2015 23:41]

Juraj, do not confuse the word composing here.
In some cases the author selects one of hunderds/thousands/millions of output positions, according to the input request.
For example your input is H#4 5 piece problem with 4 solutions without repeating moves that show switchbacks, the computer program ( whatever it is) gives you 400 positions and you select 20 of them for publishing.
The problems themselves are 'amazing' but do you consider this composing?

In some imaginative future ( probably not very near ) the input will be #5 and full 3x3 Lacny with flight giving keys, *poof* you have a 1st Prize winner 12 points in the Album :)
 
   
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(7) Posted by Frank Richter [Monday, Dec 28, 2015 13:44]

The neverending discussion ...

We could replace "compose" by "create". Would it make a difference?
If yes - is the difference significant for the evaluating of the result?
 
 
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(8) Posted by Vitaly Medintsev [Monday, Dec 28, 2015 13:48]

Happy New Year, Ioannis!

I agree with you, mostly. The question is how to define clear criteria for such a clear distinction between 'human' and 'artificial'...
 
   
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(9) Posted by ioannis kalkavouras [Monday, Dec 28, 2015 18:31]

You are right Vitaly, as far as it concerns the criteria of such a distinction, however this is a general truth when we talk about a form of art.
Nevetheless the harmless addition of an acronym, such as CGP (Computer Generated Problem) or something similar, next to the composer's name might be fair, as a gesture of sportsmanship.
 
 
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(10) Posted by ioannis kalkavouras [Monday, Dec 28, 2015 18:31]

You are right Vitaly, as far as it concerns the criteria of such a distinction, however this is a general truth when we talk about a form of art.
Nevetheless the harmless addition of an acronym, such as CGP (Computer Generated Problem) or something similar, next to the composer's name might be fair, as a gesture of sportsmanship.
 
   
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(11) Posted by Vitaly Medintsev [Tuesday, Dec 29, 2015 17:28]

I like the idea - an acronym, such as CGP (Computer Generated Problem)
 
   
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(12) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Friday, Jan 1, 2016 11:59]

Ah, but then you obviously run into the snag
"What constitutes computer help?"
Silly example: Look up "13870" (SSZ) on
http://www.bambam42.de/problem/problem3.html
This shows a subvariant of Thema H not yet known at
the time (except to Wieland Bruch of course :-).
I probably wouldn't have found this possibility
at the most abstract level (which lines will
open, which will close) without heavy use of
computer graphics. (So, yes, I *could* have done
that by hand, too.)
Does this constitute CGP? Of course not, but
where does the gray zone begin? Does the fact
that Nalimov asserts you RB/NN is won constitute
a generic computer help on the studies area?
(Oh such a bag of worms.)

Coda: Nothing, absolut nothing substitutes for
the expertise of a competent judge.

Hauke
 
   
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(13) Posted by ioannis kalkavouras [Friday, Jan 1, 2016 16:40]

Hauke, j believe that Vitaly and j (if j can speak on Vitaly's behalf), both recognize how difficult it is, to impose general rules, in order to define what is 'artificial' and what is not, so that is why we finally seek recourse to the composer's self-responsibility or self-censorship on this matter. I think this is not far from your ideas, except perhaps for the use of an acronym, that might resolve or confuse things, but j certainly don't know your opinion on that.
 
 
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MatPlus.Net Forum Competitions AWARD in JT A. Kirichenko-60 (helpmates)