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MatPlus.Net Forum General Longest dead position?
 
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(1) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Friday, Aug 1, 2008 10:13]; edited by Siegfried Hornecker [08-08-01]

Longest dead position?


I look for a dead position where one can (help-)play for a maximum time (50 move rule and threefold repetition count).

I came up with this - is it the maximum?

(= 9+10 )

Siegfried Hornecker
Original
 
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(2) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Friday, Aug 1, 2008 13:53]; edited by Hauke Reddmann [08-08-01]

Can't you throw away the 3rd rank? I.e., Kh1 Qg8/Kh8
and the pattern _P_ppPp_ on a,d,g file? This would give
(6 p- b + 6 Kxp w + 9 P- w)*50 moves until the 50 move rule
bites. wK has more than enough space to avoid a
premature 3-fold.
EDIT: Ups, 9 bP :-) Drop the Pd4 and just lose one K capture.
Still a whopping 1000 moves. At last one good FIDE idea :-)

Hauke
 
 
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(3) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Friday, Aug 1, 2008 14:26]; edited by Siegfried Hornecker [08-08-01]

Hauke, in my diagram it's:


5 captures: 250
5 black P moves: 250
11 white P moves: 550
1 x 50 moves at the end OR beginning (depends how you count)

makes 1100,5 moves!

In direct play, set Pe5 to g4 for 850,5 moves (without that, it'd be 102 moves since black plays e3, e4, g4 so white has to play g4 early, having a fortress and only one waiting move)
 
   
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(4) Posted by Georgy Evseev [Friday, Aug 1, 2008 16:03]

It seems that if WK is put to h2, BR to h1 and Pb3 is removed then there will be 50 moves more. Also, there will be at least two halfmoves lost on Black-White or White-Black switching. That is, if we move BK to g8, remove BR and add WR on h8, I expect to gain another halfmove (switch colors, if you want white to start).
 
   
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(5) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Saturday, Aug 2, 2008 20:58]

I came up with the same conclusion now, you're right.

About black-white switching, I think white should take so he has 50 moves (else 49.5) for the first capture.
 
   
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(6) Posted by Georgy Evseev [Sunday, Aug 3, 2008 14:30]

No, first black has to make all pawn moves, then white makes his captures and pawn moving. In this case we lose only one half-move on switching. This is because white finishes moving his pawns last - when black pawns have been already captured.
 
   
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(7) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Sunday, Aug 3, 2008 14:35]

Yes, that's true! However, in all cases we'll lose more half-moves later (white taking b3 and d3, then black moves the other pawns and finally white captures it and moves his pawns).
 
 
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MatPlus.Net Forum General Longest dead position?