﻿﻿ MatPlus.Net

Website founded by
Milan Velimirović
in 2006

17:23 UTC
 ISC 2020
 Headlines Forum* Fellows Members DL Archive Links

Username:

Password:

Remember me

 Forgot yourpassword?Click here! SIGN INto create your account if you don't already have one.
 CHESS SOLVINGTournamentsRating lists1-Jan-2020
 B P C F

MatPlus.Net Forum Moremovers Most easy longmover?

You can only view this page!

### Most easy longmover?

Filip Bondarenko, Feenschach 1960

(= 3+8 )

#21 - no solution needed - cmon :-) -
also qualifies for hon. ment. in sillyness -
do you have a suggestion for a simpler longmover? (Fairy is OK.)

Hauke

 (Read Only) pid=13196

It is indeed funny! There is atleast the try 1.Qd7+? :) One more problem which one can solve faster than Popeye!

 (Read Only) pid=13197

Popeye is a somewhat handicapped benchmark here;
does anyone has an actual time for, say, Gustav?
("Unintelligent" mode, of course.)

 (Read Only) pid=13198

My Gustav solves this in automatic mode in 00.65 sec.
What means immediately in my opinion ...

 (Read Only) pid=13199

Why unintelligent mode (it takes Gustav about a second in the intelligent mode)?
Do you also solve in unintelligent mode, Hauke? ;-)

P.S. But it is by no means the easiest. If I am not wrong there are moremovers in which white and black are forced to do the right moves.

 (Read Only) pid=13200

Well, there's this rather well known joke:

V. Röpke
Skakbladet
1942

(= 6+4 )

±6

 (Read Only) pid=13203

@Frank,
do not use too much hashtables.
With minimum size 4 MB Gustav found the solution in 0.01 seconds.

 (Read Only) pid=13204

Popeye finds the key in the Bondarenko-#21 in 0.4 sec.

SK, did it really take you less?

 (Read Only) pid=13205

No. I used more than a minute to solve. But my Popeye took much longer. I stopped as it showed no response after 5 min. Perhaps something to do with my computer speed !

 (Read Only) pid=13206

Seetharaman, add Condition WhiteUltraSchachZwang to Popeye.

 (Read Only) pid=13207

...which would be cheating. ;-)

Wow, are computers fast today. (The Bondarenko, arguably, is
advantageous for a computer because the many rooks quickly
shove all non-check attempts of White over the 21# limit
by giving checks themselves. Any intelligent program will
try those first, and only one refutation is needed. That,
of course, is not cheating :-)

Human also would have the disadvantage that they must write
down the solution (which takes much longer than actually
solving it).
I rephrase: Do you know a chess problem which a human still can
solve faster than a computer?

Hauke (who solves with MateMaster, where 6# already take minutes -
but since he only composes 2# anyway, it's more comfortable than
Popeye :-)

 (Read Only) pid=13208

Hauke, why cheating? The program can have it set as a default, to start solving by trying first the series of checks.

 (Read Only) pid=13211

Yes Hauke. When I published this SH#16 I predicted that any average solver will solve it in a few minutes. Popeye took more than 20 mins. http://i.imgur.com/pv4Gkjb.png

Enjoy the solution and the 'motto' of the problem!

 (Read Only) pid=13212

@Nikola: OK, if the n# solver tries white checks first
for any problem, it's no cheating (I momentarily
confused it with proving correctness).
@Seetharaman: Yup. One minute.

 (Read Only) pid=13213

Actually, adding the condition WhiteUltraSchachZwang would alter the problem.
[Though not the solution.] This is not the way to go as it anticipates knowledge
of the solution.

The correct way in Popeye is to use options.
Either option threat 0
or option nontrivial 0 0

 (Read Only) pid=13214

It doesn't anticipate the solution of the problem, it just starts solving by trying the series of checks.
In some other problem the solution would not be a series of checks.

And what actually mean the mentioned "correct" options?
I tried both of them for solving an ordinary #5 and very quickly the solution was NOT found.
Do not these options anticipate the knowledge of the solution?

 (Read Only) pid=13215

Unto Heinonen published a s#50 double maximummer in Die Schwalbe in 2000 in which all moves were forced.

http://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/diary_7.htm, item #130.

 (Read Only) pid=13216
(18) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Monday, Feb 2, 2015 18:16]

Use

http://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=probid=%27P1008770%27

for autoplay.

 (Read Only) pid=13220

The stipulation is actually wrong. The correct stipulation, as printed, is 's#, double maximummer', so without the number of moves.

 (Read Only) pid=13221

You're right. I corrected it in PDB.

 (Read Only) pid=13224

No more posts

MatPlus.Net Forum Moremovers Most easy longmover?