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MatPlus.Net Forum Fairies Kriegspiel
 
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(21) Posted by Geoff Foster [Monday, Oct 26, 2009 22:30]

Quote: I recall seeing somewhere within "The Problemist" over the last 30 years some excellent #2 twins - (a) orthodox (b) Kriegspiel - with different solutions between the two phases. Perhaps some of these might be quoted?

I'd like to see one of these quoted, because I don't think it's possible! In a direct mate, Kriegspiel is a handicap to White, who must mate without knowing what Black has played. Kriegspiel cannot be of any benefit to White. Therefore, any white move which works in a Kriegspiel #2 will also work in an orthodox #2.

P.S. Sorry, but I don't know how to do the nice grey "quote" box.
 
   
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(22) Posted by Geoff Foster [Tuesday, Oct 27, 2009 04:29]

Quote: How does KS relate to the "invisible pieces" that were used in one of the Rio tourneys? Similar but different?

Invisibles are superficially similar to Kriegspiel e.g. captures are announced in both. Consider the following problem.

Jean Roche, The Problemist, 1976
(= 14+0 )
#2 Kriegspiel

White has made 15 pawn captures, so the black king is alone. The black king is either on d1, f1, a5, d5, a8, b8, c8, d8, f8 or g8.
1.Qe1!
If "capture on a4" then 2.Qb4.
If "capture on a6" then 2.Bd3.
If "capture on d4" then 2.Qe4.
If "capture on d6" then 2.Qe5.
If "capture on e1" then 2.Rc1.
If no announcement then 2.Qe8

This problem could be set as #2 with 1 Black Invisible. The pawns on a2 and b6 would then not be required, because they are only there to prove 15 captures. The solution would be as follows:

1.Qe1! (threat 2.Qe8)
1...Ixa4 2.Qb4
1...Ixa6 2.Bd3
1...Ixd4 2.Qe4
1...Ixd6 2.Qe5
1...Ixe1 2.Rc1

However, there are many important differences between Kriegspiel and Invisibles. In Kriegspiel the referee will announce checks, and will also (on request) announce if there are any pawn captures, so there are more ways of gaining information. But the main difference is that with Invisibles the very act of making a move proves that the move is legal (proving it by doing it), while in Kriegspiel a move may be rejected as illegal. I apologise for quoting the following problem again, but it is a good example of this difference.

Geoff Foster, feenschach, November 1984
(= 16+0 )
#2 Kriegspiel

White has made 15 pawn captures, so the black king is alone. The black king is either on b5, d3, f7, f3 or h2 (but not a8!).
1.Ke5!
If "capture on a6" then 2.Qb6 or 2.Bf1.
If "capture on d2" then 2.Qc3.
If "capture on g3" then 2.Ke4.
If no announcement then the black king must have been on f7.
Attempt to play 2.Kf6. This will be mate if Black has played 1...Kf7-e8.
If 2.Kf6 is refused then Black must have played 1...Kf7-g7 or 1...Kf7-e7, so attempt to play 2.Ke6. This will be mate if Black has played 1...Kf7-g7.
If 2.Ke6 is refused then Black must have played 1...Kf7-e7, so mate by 2.Sf6.

It would be a mistake to set this problem as #2 with 1 Black Invisible, because the move 2.Kf6 would not be refused (the very act of playing the move proves that it is legal). Therefore 2.Kf6 proves that Black has just played 1...Ie8. Because of this the last two variations (the very point of the problem) would be lost.
 
 
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(23) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Monday, Jan 13, 2014 00:00]; edited by Jacques Rotenberg [14-01-13]

some more Kriegspiel... with black play.

Bruno Fargette
Jacques Rotenberg
Mémorial J.M. Trillon 2012
1° Prix

(= 9+10 )

‡14 (9+10)
Half-discret Kriegspiel

Rules of half-discret Kriegspiel :

Like in Kriegspiel but :

captures are said with the square of capture : "capture on …"
checks are said but without any more indication : "check"
"are there any" cannot be asked

1.Bc4! 2.e×d7! impossible 2.Kd5! impossible 2. Kb6! 3.Ba6 4.Bc8! 5.Ka6! 6.Bb7! 7.Kb6 8.B×g2! impossible 8.Kc6! impossible 8.Bc6! 9.Kc5 10.B×g2 impossible 10.Kd5! impossible 10.Bd5! 11.Kd4! 12.B×g2 impossible 12.Ke4 impossible 12.Be4! B×e4 13.K×e4 R×g3 14.S×g3#

If 5...+ 6.Kb6! 7.Bb7! etc. (14.S×g3#)
6...B×c8 7.Ka7 8.e×d7 impossible 8.K×b7 ou 8.K×a6 9.S×g3# (if 8.e×d7 possible 9.f×e6 10.g×f5 11.~ 12.S×g3#)
6...B×f1 7.Bb7 8.B×g2#
6...B×g4 7.S×g4 R×g3 8.Bb7+ 9.Sge3 g4 10.Sg3#

If 5...impossible 5.Ba6! (si impossible 5.K×b7) 6.Bb7! etc. (13.S×g3#)

If 2.Kd5 possible 3.g×h5 impossible 3.f×g6 impossible 3.e×f7 impossible 3.e×d7 impossible 3.Ba6! (if impossible 3.B×b5) 4.g×h5 impossible 4.f×g6 impossible 4.e×f7 impossible 4.e×d7 impossible 4.B×b5

You have to try 2.e×d7! if not, if 2.Kd5 is possible the black bishop may play on c8 and this possibility forbids any progress
 
 
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MatPlus.Net Forum Fairies Kriegspiel