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01-Oct-2019

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MatPlus.Net Forum Selfmates The Slaughterhouse
 
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(1) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Saturday, Jun 29, 2019 15:05]

The Slaughterhouse


Here's a simple problem for you all: BTM, s#17

(= 16+3 )


I made this one myself. I have aptly named ths problem "The Slaughterhouse."
 
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(2) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Monday, Nov 4, 2019 16:48]

A 17-mover version (longer by one move, as the last one is actually a #16) with the correct color scheme.

s#17
(= 3+15 )

 
 
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(3) Posted by Arno Tungler [Tuesday, Nov 5, 2019 08:42]

This needs only 6 moves with 5.Bg3+ 6.Bf2+...
 
   
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(4) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Tuesday, Nov 5, 2019 11:23]; edited by seetharaman kalyan [19-11-05]

Obviously e1 should be guarded only by final black queen mate!
 
   
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(5) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Tuesday, Nov 5, 2019 13:24]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-11-05]

Thanks Arno. I have like no idea how to use Popeye, so I have no way of checking for correctness. Corrected version?

s#17

(= 3+16 )


And that is correct seetharaman!
 
   
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(6) Posted by Michael McDowell [Tuesday, Nov 5, 2019 15:25]

As Popeye comes with a help file which includes examples I don't see your problem.
 
 
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(7) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Tuesday, Nov 5, 2019 15:51]

Use Olive. It is very simple to use.(with inbuilt Popeye)
 
   
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(8) Posted by Arno Tungler [Wednesday, Nov 6, 2019 12:24]

With black knight b7 on a6 you do not need bPa5.
Also the bPa7 is not needed - besides for slaughtering...
 
   
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(9) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Wednesday, Nov 6, 2019 13:08]

You are right that the BPa7 is not needed. But the BPa5 is needed to prevent the BRa4 from taking the White bishop when it gives a check on a7.
 
   
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(10) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Wednesday, Nov 6, 2019 15:17]; edited by seetharaman kalyan [19-11-06]

BSb7 shifted to a5! hence a7 protected
 
   
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(11) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Wednesday, Nov 6, 2019 18:41]

That is true. But then it is a s#16.
 
   
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(12) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Wednesday, Nov 6, 2019 19:45]; edited by Jacques Rotenberg [19-11-07]

Mr seetharaman kalyan meant b7 to a6 of course.
another solution seems to be : bring rook a4 to g4

btw, the pawn e7 is also questionable, perhaps something like that is possible :
(= 3+13 )


or perhaps also :

(= 3+14 )

s19#

1.B×c2+ Ka2 2.Bb1+ Ka1 3.B×d3+ Ka2 4.Q×d2+ Ka1 5.Qc1+ Ka2 6.Bb1+ Ka1 7.B×e4+ Ka2 8.Bb1+ Ka1 9.B×f5+ Ka2 10.Bb1+ Ka1 11.B×g6+ Ka2 12.Bb1+ Ka1 13.Bh7+ Ka2 14.Bg8+ Sf7 15.B×f7+ Se6 16.B×e6+ Rd5 17.B×d5+ Bc4 18.B×c4+ b3 19.B×b3+ Q×b3‡
 
   
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(13) Posted by Torsten Linß [Thursday, Nov 7, 2019 11:07]

The first of Jacques' settings is a dualistic s#10 (4.Dg4+), the second is C+ according to Gustav 4.0.
 
   
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(14) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Thursday, Nov 7, 2019 21:06]

That’s a very nice s#19 Jacques!
 
   
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(15) Posted by Arno Tungler [Friday, Nov 8, 2019 11:09]; edited by Arno Tungler [19-11-08]

Maybe to get the "slaughterhouse" maximum for this matrix...
This is not yet tested!

JR(&JM&AT?)
(= 3+15 )

s#19

All 12 captured black pieces are necessary …
The author suggestion in brackets is only out of my secret wish to be once co-author of Jacques (maybe Rewan has similar feelings).

Maybe you can even add the missing black knight on h5 for a s#20??
 
   
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(16) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Friday, Nov 8, 2019 12:37]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-11-08]

I think I have the extra knight added.

JM&AT&JC

s#21

(= 3+16 )


Solution (For Checking): 1. Bxg3+ Kg1 2. Bh2+ Kh1 3. Bxf4+ Kg1 4. Qxg4+ Kh1 5. Qxh5+ Kg2 6. Qg4+ Kh1 7. Qh3+ Kg1 8. Bh2+ Kh1 9. Bxe5+ Kg1 10. Bh2+ Kh1 11. Bxd6+ Kg1 12. Bh2+ Kh1 13. Bxc7+ Kg1 14. Bh2+ Kh1 15. Bb8+ Kg1 16. Bxa7+ b6 17. Bxb6+ Nc5 18. Bxc5+ Rd4 19. Bxd4+ Be3 20. Bxe3+ f2+ 21. Bxf2+ Qxf2#
 
   
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(17) Posted by Arno Tungler [Friday, Nov 8, 2019 12:41]

No, it is 4. Qxg4+ Sg3! 5.Qxg3+ Kh1 6. Qh3+ Kg1 etc.
If Black does not interfere on g3 White will finish one move earlier as the piece on h5 does not disturb.
 
   
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(18) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Friday, Nov 8, 2019 13:05]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-11-08]

Ah, clever. I see now.

Also, Arno, remember how you did some work on series-castling?

I have seen the charts for the records of series-castling and series-help-castling, but I havem't actually seen any of the diagrams. Can you please share them with me?

I did make a post on it here: https://www.chessproblem.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1079&p=2352#p2352

I created my ser-h0-0 34 awhile back. Still not tested.
 
 
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(19) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Friday, Nov 8, 2019 14:06]; edited by Jacques Rotenberg [19-11-08]

@ Torsten
Thank you for checking!
Does the s17# works with Rg4->d8 ? (just for curiosity)

@ Arno
Thank you, I feel honoured by you kind words!
of course, I would be honoured to have some work with you, but here, I don't know if my name is needed at all!

now, about your position,
(= 3+16 )

S#20

1.B×g3+ Kg1 2.Bh2+ Kh1 3.B×f4+ Kg1 4.Q×g4+ Sg3 5.Q×g3+ Kh1 6.Qh3+ Kg1 7.Bh2+ Kh1 8.B×e5+ Kg1 9.Bh2+ Kh1 10.B×d6+ Kg1 11.Bh2+ Kh1 12.B×c7+ Kg1 13.Bh2+ Kh1 14.Bb8+ Kg1 15.B×a7+ b6 16.B×b6+ Sc5 17.B×c5+ Rd4 18.B×d4+ Be3 19.B×e3+ f2+ 20.B×f2+ Q×f2‡

I think your Sh5 is mandatory :
a) it lenghtens the solution one move
b) the play on the g file recalls now somewhat what happens on the diagonal a7-g1, so that you have a kind of echo diagonal/orthogonal
c) it completes the full 16 black set of pieces

The Sh5 gives the opportunity to lengthen in another way :

(= 3+14 )
S#22

1.B×g3+ Kg1 2.Bh2+ Kh1 3.B×f4+ Kg1 4.Qg4+ Kh1 5.Q×f3+ Kg1 6.Qg4+ Sg3 7.Q×g3+ Kh1 8.Qh3+ Kg1 9.Bh2+ Kh1 10.B×e5+ Kg1 11.Bh2+ Kh1 12.B×d6+ Kg1 13.Bh2+ Kh1 14.B×c7+ Kg1 15.Bh2+ Kh1 16.B×b8+ Kg1 17.Bh2+ Kh1 18.Bc7+ Kg1 19.Bb6+ Sc5 20.B×c5+ Be3 21.B×e3+ Rf2 22.B×f2+ Q×f2‡

now the Sh5 is also useful to avoid 4.Qg3?? and 6.Qg3??

or even this ?

(= 3+14 )
S#24

1.B×f7+ Kh7 2.Bg8+ Kh8 3.B×e6+ Kh7 4.Qe7+ Kh8 5.Qf6+ Kh7 6.Q×g6+ Kh8 7.Qf6+ Kh7 8.Qe7+ Sf7+ 9.Q×f7+ Kh8 10.Qf8+ Kh7 11.Bg8+ Kh8 12.B×d5+ Kh7 13.Bg8+ Kh8 14.B×c4+ Kh7 15.Bg8+ Kh8 16.B×b3+ Kh7 17.Bg8+ Kh8 18.B×a2+ Kh7 19.Bg8+ Kh8 20.Bb3+ Kh7 21.Bc2+ Sd3(Se4) 22.B×d3+(B×e4+) Bf5 23.B×f5+ Rg6+ 24.B×g6+ Q×g6‡

is seems even possible to add a black pawn f5 for a S#26!
 
   
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(20) Posted by Arno Tungler [Friday, Nov 8, 2019 16:38]

@ J. Malcolm
I will answer on the other site for the ser-00 records!

@ Jacques
Your name is certainly needed even if that task is not your usual level...
The other possibilities to add moves are interesting but I would prefer the shortest with the most possible captures. For example if it would be possible to capture even 14 "necessary" units (the theoretical maximum) with more moves, that may be better. But then you need probably an additional white blocking unit.
Additionally, in the s#22, would there not be a dual after 4.Qg4+ Sg3 5.Q×g3+ Kh1 6.Qxf3+ Kg1 7.Qg3+ or Qg4+? While it is only an alternative line, it still has the same number of moves and is unpleasant.
 
   
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MatPlus.Net Forum Selfmates The Slaughterhouse