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MatPlus.Net Forum General Looking for mutual caterpillar problema
 
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(1) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Wednesday, Jul 3, 2019 01:09]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-07-03]

Looking for mutual caterpillar problema


Does anyone know of any chess problems with the caterpillar theme in which it is mutual, i.e. both sides move doubled or more pawns? What about problems where one sides moves doubled or more pawns on two or more files?

Also, is there a search term for the caterpillar theme or something similar in Schwalbe? I did find anything in K or G when using the word caterpillar

A search in yacpdb only bring a single serious-help-stalemate.

Under the fairy stipulation "White must checkmate with a promotion," here's an attempt of mine to create a mutual caterpillar problem. It's an illegal position and probably cooked.

BTM, h#9, "White Must Mate With Promotion," 'Cooked?'
(= 5+9 )



My Solution: 1. h2 e4 2. h1=B e5 3. Bxc6 e6 4. Bd7 exd7 5. h3 e3 6. h2 e4 7. h1=B e5 8. Bb7 e6 9. Bc8 dxc8=Q#


Of course, without that fairy stipulation, a h#7 is possible:
1. h2 e4 2. h1=B e5 3. Bd5 e4 4. Bf7 e6 5. h3 exf7 6. h2 f8=Q 7. h1=B Qxd8# 1-0
 
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(2) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Wednesday, Jul 3, 2019 12:09]; edited by Hauke Reddmann [19-07-03]

There is the old "Spießrutenlauf", which is a Bedingungsproblem
(White has to mate with his single P - he deflects the left side
of the black pawn wall away and sneaks through the right side)
but as already said - single pawn.
Schwalbe 8027 (me being coauthor) shows only wP running. No figurative
comment was given :-)

Of course you could do a "Longest possible game?" type question,
the move order would then be ad lib:
(= 7+8 )


EDIT: If you are troll-happy, you stipulate "How long takes the longest
game from this position" and answer "0 - the position is dead" :-)
 
 
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(3) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Wednesday, Jul 3, 2019 12:50]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-07-03]

BLANK
 
 
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(4) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Wednesday, Jul 3, 2019 12:50]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-07-03]

Thanks for that Hauke! Although I'm not sure that I found the right Schwalbe problem that you mentioned-1 problem(s) found in 1312 milliseconds (displaying 1 problem(s)). [PROBID='P0008027']

1 - P0008027
Nikita M. Plaksin
Andrej N. Kornilow
(62) feenschach 63 12/1982
P0008027
(2+5)
Welches war der letzte Zug?
Circe, Monochromes Schach
R: 1. Bc7xDd8=T
play all play one stop play next play all
comment
Keywords: Circe, Last Move? (BxD=T), Monochrome, Type A
Genre: Retro, Fairies
Input: Gerd Wilts, 1996-9-5
Last update: A.Buchanan, 2012-4-13 more


Also, in case you missed it, I recently posted my finds of 16 regular cross-checks in a legal position. It was very tough for me to make a legal 16!
 
   
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(5) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Thursday, Jul 4, 2019 10:12]

PBD Nr.# != Schwalbe Nr.# (even if the PBD is hosted by SCHWALBE)
Look here http://bambam42.de/problem/problem2.html
for my coauthor Sandkämper.
 
   
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(6) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Thursday, Jul 4, 2019 11:36]

An interesting mate in 7 problem, no doubt. Thanks for that Mr.Redmann.

I also got an idea for an orthodox direct-mate from your position that you co-authored. Thanks for that!

I even managed to put in double doubled pawns!

While there is a dual with the White bishop, I believe that the caterpillar theme idea to it should be easy enough to find, even for a beginner chess puzzle solver. It's super easy to solve, really.

WTM, #6

(= 11+9 )


Now I have a real mutual caterpillar theme problem in which one side has a double caterpillar duty! Huzzah!
 
   
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(7) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Saturday, Jul 6, 2019 09:47]

Just for fun, I optimized the caterpillar for length:

(= 10+6 )


#5 (the only remarkable thing is that it's cook-free, although White
could try quite a few other things)
 
   
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(8) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Saturday, Jul 6, 2019 16:15]

Nice job! And that's a cool way to prevent queening duals!
 
   
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(9) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Saturday, Jul 6, 2019 17:44]

Also, how do you search for caterpillar problems in Schwalbe?
 
   
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(10) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Saturday, Jul 6, 2019 21:12]

You don't, as a "caterpillar" theme* (would be "Raupe") doesn't exist (officially).
Obviously, nothing hinders you to look after positions that fit the theme to your liking,
but then, you have to go to PDB (no idea if it's complete for SCHWALBE) and
define a search term looking for multiple pawns (if that is possible - in German they
are named Doppel-, Tripel, X-tupelbauer) and their movement (no idea at all about that).

The only alternative is to rely on the memory of your peers. (For example, I know
a fake Tarrasch game, I think done by Marco, with a mate by a sextuple pawn. :-)
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=10510&kpage=9
Also, anyone knows the Shinkman sextuple pawn position, 1.O-O-O!

Hauke

* The SCHWALBE has an online register, even with a terminology page, but
that's not really a theme register.
 
   
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(11) Posted by Rosie Fay [Sunday, Jul 7, 2019 10:41]

Hauke: anyone knows the Shinkman sextuple pawn position, 1.O-O-O!

Yes! It's at P1267725, which also points out the alternative on White's 1st move, 1 Kd2!. It's also in Dickins & Ebert's 100 Classics of the Chessboard, no. 75, which points out 1 0-0-0 and 1 Kd2, too. If the problem is intended as a #8 with 1 0-0-0 as the key, 1 Kd2 is thus a cook.

I see that PDB documents a fix (due to Speckmann): wPa2->c2 a) #7 b) -wPc2 #8.
 
   
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(12) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Sunday, Jul 7, 2019 11:14]

That cook is also well-known (and a shame, Caissa wasn't kind to Shinkman).
Of course, Fischer Random castling was well after Speckmann, or he might have
considered to correct by putting the king on f1 :-)
 
   
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(13) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Sunday, Jul 7, 2019 17:40]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-07-07]

Tim Krabbe made an article entitled "The Kuwait Immortal" that touches on that famous Shinkman problem. It also features his friend Bader Al-Hajiri's 34-move proof game for the Shinkman's position-the fastest way possible.

Here's the link: https://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/kuwait.htm

He notes that the WPa2 to C2 "correction" that Rosie mentioned is also cooked in itself.
 
   
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(14) Posted by Jan Hein Verduin [Monday, Jul 8, 2019 19:40]

If I remember correctly, Krabbé also wrote an article on the caterpillar, probably in legendary dutch chess magazine Schaakbulletin. Must have been decades ago that I saw it. But possibly I can still find it, though it would be in dutch.
 
   
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(15) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Monday, Jul 8, 2019 20:17]

I have read that mentioned in one or two places before, although I wouldn't know where to find it. Even if in Dutch, I would still like to take a look at it myself.
 
   
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(16) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Tuesday, Jul 9, 2019 17:44]

Pretty sure he wrote about it in his book "Schaakkuriosa".
 
   
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(17) Posted by Jan Hein Verduin [Tuesday, Jul 9, 2019 19:18]; edited by Jan Hein Verduin [19-07-09]

I'm pretty sure that he didn't.
 
 
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(18) Posted by Joost de Heer [Tuesday, Jul 9, 2019 19:18]

I checked Schaakcuriosa, Nieuwe schaakcuriosa and Chess curiosities, but nothing about caterpillars in there.
 
   
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(19) Posted by Joost de Heer [Tuesday, Jul 9, 2019 19:27]; edited by Joost de Heer [19-07-09]

https://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/admag/quad.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke_chess_problem Footnote 3
 
   
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(20) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Wednesday, Jul 10, 2019 01:11]

Ah, then I misremembered. I thought the Shinkman problem was in there. But it's many years since I read the German version of that book (it came in two separate books here).
 
   
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MatPlus.Net Forum General Looking for mutual caterpillar problema