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MatPlus.Net Forum Selfmates The Slaughterhouse
 
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(21) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Friday, Nov 8, 2019 19:08]; edited by Olaf Jenkner [19-11-08]

The s#24 has some duals:
7. Qe8+ Kg7 8. Qe7+ etc...
The alternative line 4. ... Sf7 5. Qxf7+ Kh8 6. Qf6+ Kh7 7. Qxg6+ Kh8 has duals as well:
8. Qh5+ / Qf6+ / Qe8+

The additional pawn f5 fixes this issue (C+):

1. Lxf7+ Kh7 2. Lg8+ Kh8 3. Lxe6+ Kh7 4. De7+ Kh8 5. Df6+ Kh7 6. Dxg6+ Kh8 7. Df6+ Kh7 8. Dxf5+ Kg7 9. Df6+ Kh7 10. De7+ Sf7+ 11. Dxf7+ Kh8 12. Df8+ Kh7 13. Lg8+ Kh8 14. Lxd5+ Kh7 15. Lg8+ Kh8 16. Lxc4+ Kh7 17. Lg8+ Kh8 18. Lxb3+ Kh7 19. Lg8+ Kh8 20. Lxa2+ Kh7 21. Lg8+ Kh8 22. Lb3+ Kh7 23. Lc2+ Sd3 24. Lxd3+ Lf5 25. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 26. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
24. ... Tg6+ 25. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
23. ... Se4+ 24. Lxe4+ Lf5 25. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 26. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
24. ... Tg6+ 25. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
23. ... Lf5 24. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 25. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
23. ... Tg6+ 24. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
10. ... Kh8 11. Df8+ Kh7 12. Lg8+ Kh8 13. Lxd5+ Kh7 14. Lg8+ Kh8 15. Lxc4+ Kh7 16. Lg8+ Kh8 17. Lxb3+ Kh7 18. Lg8+ Kh8 19. Lxa2+ Kh7 20. Lg8+ Kh8 21. Lb3+ Kh7 22. Lc2+ Sd3 23. Lxd3+ Lf5 24. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 25. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
23. ... Tg6+ 24. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
22. ... Se4+ 23. Lxe4+ Lf5 24. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 25. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
23. ... Tg6+ 24. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
22. ... Lf5 23. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 24. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
22. ... Tg6+ 23. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
8. ... Kh8 9. Df8+ Kh7 10. Lg8+ Kh8 11. Lxd5+ Kh7 12. Lg8+ Kh8 13. Lxc4+ Kh7 14. Lg8+ Kh8 15. Lxb3+ Kh7 16. Lg8+ Kh8 17. Lxa2+ Kh7 18. Lg8+ Kh8 19. Lb3+ Kh7 20. Lc2+ Sd3 21. Lxd3+ Lf5 22. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 23. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
21. ... Tg6+ 22. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
20. ... Se4+ 21. Lxe4+ Lf5 22. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 23. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
21. ... Tg6+ 22. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
20. ... Lf5 21. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 22. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
20. ... Tg6+ 21. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
4. ... Sf7+ 5. Dxf7+ Kh8 6. Df6+ Kh7 7. Dxg6+ Kh8 8. Df6+ Kh7 9. Dxf5+ Kg7 10. Df7+ Kh8 11. Df8+ Kh7 12. Lg8+ Kh8 13. Lxd5+ Kh7 14. Lg8+ Kh8 15. Lxc4+ Kh7 16. Lg8+ Kh8 17. Lxb3+ Kh7 18. Lg8+ Kh8 19. Lxa2+ Kh7 20. Lg8+ Kh8 21. Lb3+ Kh7 22. Lc2+ Sd3 23. Lxd3+ Lf5 24. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 25. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
23. ... Tg6+ 24. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
22. ... Se4+ 23. Lxe4+ Lf5 24. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 25. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
23. ... Tg6+ 24. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
22. ... Lf5 23. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 24. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
22. ... Tg6+ 23. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
9. ... Kh8 10. Df8+ Kh7 11. Lg8+ Kh8 12. Lxd5+ Kh7 13. Lg8+ Kh8 14. Lxc4+ Kh7 15. Lg8+ Kh8 16. Lxb3+ Kh7 17. Lg8+ Kh8 18. Lxa2+ Kh7 19. Lg8+ Kh8 20. Lb3+ Kh7 21. Lc2+ Sd3 22. Lxd3+ Lf5 23. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 24. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
22. ... Tg6+ 23. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
21. ... Se4+ 22. Lxe4+ Lf5 23. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 24. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
22. ... Tg6+ 23. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
21. ... Lf5 22. Lxf5+ Tg6+ 23. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
21. ... Tg6+ 22. Lxg6+ Dxg6#
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18223
(22) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [Friday, Nov 8, 2019 20:00]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [19-11-09]

Many thanks Olaf! To give the diagram:

JM, AT, & JR
s#26 C+

(= 3+15 )


Solution: 1. Bxf7+ Kh7 2. Bg8+ Kh8 3. Bxe6+ Kh7 4. Qe7+ Kh8 5. Qf6+ Kh7 6. Qxg6+ Kh8 7. Qf6+ Kh7 8. Qxf5+ Kg7 9. Qf6+ Kh7 10. Qe7+ Nf7+ 11. Qxf7+ Kh8 12. Qf8+ Kh7 13. Bg8+ Kh8 14. Bxd5+ Kh7 15. Bg8+ Kh8 16. Bxc4+ Kh7 17. Bg8+ Kh8 18. Bxb3+ Kh7 19. Bg8+ Kh8 20. Bxa2+ Kh7 21. Bg8+ Kh8 22. Bb3+ Kh7 23. Bc2+ Nd3 24. Bxd3+ Bf5. 25. Bxf5+ Rg6+ 26. Bxg6+ Qxg6

What shall we do with this masterpiece?

Btw, this matches a known record of the longest selfmate with a windmill: https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=probid=%27P1289255%27
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18224
(23) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Friday, Nov 8, 2019 21:08]

The most possible number of captures at all is here:

(= 3+16 )

s#28 C+

Unfortunately there is a promoted rook.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18225
(24) Posted by Arno Tungler [Saturday, Nov 9, 2019 03:32]; edited by Arno Tungler [19-11-09]

@ J. Malcolm
It is already done what can be done, the problems have been published on this site. No "masterpieces" but fun...
And it should not be JC but JR.

@ Olaf
Would you mind to test also the s#20 above (Post 19 by Jacques, first diagram). Great how your program is able to test such long selfmates!

@ Jacques
The 26-mover has some valid additional features with the added switchback of the wB on the diagonal a2-g8 and the funny queen-go-round-f7! Olaf's idea to have the bishop promoted on g8 is another nice addition as it gives a non-capturing key, while the capture of the promoted rook on f8 does not really add anything as that rook is not mandatory. So, I would keep the s#27 with 1.g8=B+. What do you think?
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18226
(25) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [Saturday, Nov 9, 2019 03:51]

To Arno-I see. And I correcred the error.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18227
(26) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Saturday, Nov 9, 2019 08:43]; edited by Olaf Jenkner [19-11-09]

The S#20 is cooked. Instead of 12. Bxc7 white can play shorter
12. Bf4+ Kg1 13. Qg3+ Kh1 14. Qxf3+ Kg1 15. Qg3+ Kh1 16. Qh3+ Kg1 17. Bh2+ Kh1 18. Bg3+ Kg1 19. Bf2+ Qxf2#
or from the beginning much shorter
1. Bxg3+ Kg1 2. Bh2+ Kh1 3. Bxf4+ Kg1 4. Qxg4+ Kh1 5. Qxf3+ Kg1 6. Qg4+ Sg3 7. Qxg3+ Kh1 8. Qh3+ Kg1 9. Bh2+ Kh1 10. Bg3+ Kg1 11. Bf2+ Qxf2#
6. ...Kh1 7. Qh3+ Kg1 8. Bh2+ Kh1 9. Bg3+ Kg1 10. Bf2+ Qxf2#
4. ... Sg3 5. Qxg3+ Kh1 6. Qxf3+ Kg1 7. Qg3+ Kh1 8. Qh3+ Kg1 9. Bh2+ Kh1 10. Bg3+ Kg1 11. Bf2+ Qxf2#

In my opinion the 27th move does not add anything if the goal is the maximum number of captures.
But it is necessary for the 28th move to add an additional capture. The rook is mandatory to avoid a illegal position with black king in check.
I know it's not a good argument because the white queen can stand at e7 as well.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18228
(27) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Saturday, Nov 9, 2019 14:04]

This setting without any promoted piece is the best in my opinion.
It shows 13 captures of black pieces:

(= 5+15 )

S#28

1. Qxf8+ Kh7 2. g8=B+ Kh8 3. Bxf7+ Kh7 4. Bg8+ Kh8 5. Bxe6+ Kh7 6. Qe7+ Kh8 7. Qf6+ Kh7 8. Qxg6+ Kh8 9. Qf6+ Kh7 10. Qxf5+ Kg7 11. Qf6+ Kh7 12. Qe7+ Sf7+ 13. Qxf7+ Kh8 14. Qf8+ Kh7 15. Bg8+ Kh8 16. Bxd5+ Kh7 17. Bg8+ Kh8 18. Bxc4+ Kh7 19. Bg8+ Kh8 20. Bxb3+ Kh7 21. Bg8+ Kh8 22. Bxa2+ Kh7 23. Bg8+ Kh8 24. Bb3+ Kh7 25. Bc2+ Sd3 26. Bxd3+ Bf5 27. Bxf5+ Rg6+ 28. Bxg6+ Qxg6#
25. ... Se4+ 26. Bxe4+ Bf5 27. Bxf5+ Rg6+ 28. Bxg6+ Qxg6#
12. ... Kh8 13. Qf8+ Kh7 14. Bg8+ Kh8 15. Bxd5+ Kh7 16. Bg8+ Kh8 17. Bxc4+ Kh7 18. Bg8+ Kh8 19. Bxb3+ Kh7 20. Bg8+ Kh8 21. Bxa2+ Kh7 22. Bg8+ Kh8 23. Bb3+ Kh7 24. Bc2+ Sd3 25. Bxd3+ Bf5 26. Bxf5+ Rg6+ 27. Bxg6+ Qxg6#
24. ... Se4+ 25. Bxe4+ Bf5 26. Bxf5+ Rg6+ 27. Bxg6+ Qxg6#
10. ... Kh8 11. Qf8+ Kh7 12. Bg8+ Kh8 13. Bxd5+ Kh7 14. Bg8+ Kh8 15. Bxc4+ Kh7 16. Bg8+ Kh8 17. Bxb3+ Kh7 18. Bg8+ Kh8 19. Bxa2+ Kh7 20. Bg8+ Kh8 21. Bb3+ Kh7 22. Bc2+ Sd3 23. Bxd3+ Bf5 24. Bxf5+ Rg6+ 25. Bxg6+ Qxg6#
22. ... Se4+ 23. Bxe4+ Bf5 24. Bxf5+ Rg6+ 25. Bxg6+ Qxg6#
6. ... Sf7+ 7. Qxf7+ Kh8 8. Qf6+ Kh7 9. Qxg6+ Kh8 10. Qf6+ Kh7 11. Qxf5+ Kg7 12. Qf7+ Kh8 13. Qf8+ Kh7 14. Bg8+ Kh8 15. Bxd5+ Kh7 16. Bg8+ Kh8 17. Bxc4+ Kh7 18. Bg8+ Kh8 19. Bxb3+ Kh7 20. Bg8+ Kh8 21. Bxa2+ Kh7 22. Bg8+ Kh8 23. Bb3+ Kh7 24. Bc2+ Sd3 25. Bxd3+ Bf5 26. Bxf5+ Rg6+ 27. Bxg6+ Qxg6#
24. ... Se4+ 25. Bxe4+ Bf5 26. Bxf5+ Rg6+ 27. Bxg6+ Qxg6#
11. ... Kh8 12. Qf8+ Kh7 13. Bg8+ Kh8 14. Bxd5+ Kh7 15. Bg8+ Kh8 16. Bxc4+ Kh7 17. Bg8+ Kh8 18. Bxb3+ Kh7 19. Bg8+ Kh8 20. Bxa2+ Kh7 21. Bg8+ Kh8 22. Bb3+ Kh7 23. Bc2+ Sd3 24. Bxd3+ Bf5 25. Bxf5+ Rg6+ 26. Bxg6+ Qxg6#
23. ... Bf5 24. Bxf5+ Rg6+ 25. Bxg6+ Qxg6#
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18229
(28) Posted by Arno Tungler [Saturday, Nov 9, 2019 14:38]

Thank you so much for testing, Olaf! I appreciate your try with the bBf8 but I would rather have one capture less than feature a problem with capture of a really unnecessary black officer as key...
The 13 captures with minimal white force (and minimal moves) was the goal of the s#20. Here is a new version that hopefully addresses the cooks that you found. May you have a look again...?

JM, JR & AT (alphabetic order)
(= 3+16 )

s#20

1.B×g3+ Kg1 2.Bh2+ Kh1 3.B×f4+ Kg1 4.Q×g4+ Sg3! 5.Q×g3+ Kh1 6.Qh3+ Kg1 7.Bh2+ Kh1 8.B×e5+ Kg1 9.Bh2+ Kh1 10.B×d6+ Kg1 11.Bh2+ Kh1 12.B×c7+ Kg1 13.Bh2+ Kh1 14.Bb8+ Kg1 15.B×a7+ b6 16.B×b6+ Sc5 17.B×c5+ Bd4 18.B×d4+ Re3+ 19.B×e3+ f2+ 20.B×f2+ Q×f2‡
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18230
(29) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [Saturday, Nov 9, 2019 14:49]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [19-11-09]

Fun Fact: The original goal if mine was to have the bishop capture as many pieces as possible, but these new #20+ are just as great!
 
 
(Read Only)pid=18231
(30) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Saturday, Nov 9, 2019 14:51]

Unfortunately a dual in 4th move:

4. Lh2+ Kh1 5. Lxe5+ Kg1 6. Dxg4+ Sg3 7. Dxg3+ Kh1 8. Dh3+ Kg1 9. Lh2+ Kh1 10. Lxd6+ Kg1 11. Lh2+ Kh1 12. Lxc7+ Kg1 13. Lh2+ Kh1 14. Lb8+ Kg1 15. Lxa7+ b6 16. Lxb6+ Sc5 17. Lxc5+ Ld4 18. Lxd4+ Te3+ 19. Lxe3+ f2+ 20. Lxf2+ Dxf2#
6. ... Kh1 7. Dh3+ Kg1 8. Lh2+ Kh1 9. Lxd6+ Kg1 10. Lh2+ Kh1 11. Lxc7+ Kg1 12. Lh2+ Kh1 13. Lb8+ Kg1 14. Lxa7+ b6 15. Lxb6+ Sc5 16. Lxc5+ Ld4 17. Lxd4+ Te3+ 18. Lxe3+ f2+ 19. Lxf2+ Dxf2#
6. Lh2+ Kh1 7. Lxd6+ Kg1 8. Dxg4+ Sg3 9. Dxg3+ Kh1 10. Dh3+ Kg1 11. Lh2+ Kh1 12. Lxc7+ Kg1 13. Lh2+ Kh1 14. Lb8+ Kg1 15. Lxa7+ b6 16. Lxb6+ Sc5 17. Lxc5+ Ld4 18. Lxd4+ Te3+ 19. Lxe3+ f2+ 20. Lxf2+ Dxf2#
8. ... Kh1 9. Dh3+ Kg1 10. Lh2+ Kh1 11. Lxc7+ Kg1 12. Lh2+ Kh1 13. Lb8+ Kg1 14. Lxa7+ b6 15. Lxb6+ Sc5 16. Lxc5+ Ld4 17. Lxd4+ Te3+ 18. Lxe3+ f2+ 19. Lxf2+ Dxf2#
8. Lh2+ Kh1 9. Lxc7+ Kg1 10. Dxg4+ Sg3 11. Dxg3+ Kh1 12. Dh3+ Kg1 13. Lh2+ Kh1 14. Lb8+ Kg1 15. Lxa7+ b6 16. Lxb6+ Sc5 17. Lxc5+ Ld4 18. Lxd4+ Te3+ 19. Lxe3+ f2+ 20. Lxf2+ Dxf2#
10. Lh2+ Kh1 11. Lb8+ Kg1 12. Dxg4+ Sg3 13. Dxg3+ Kh1 14. Dh3+ Kg1 15. Lxa7+ b6 16. Lxb6+ Sc5 17. Lxc5+ Ld4 18. Lxd4+ Te3+ 19. Lxe3+ f2+ 20. Lxf2+ Dxf2#
12. ... Kh1 13. Dh3+ Kg1 14. Lxa7+ b6 15. Lxb6+ Sc5 16. Lxc5+ Ld4 17. Lxd4+ Te3+ 18. Lxe3+ f2+ 19. Lxf2+ Dxf2#
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18232
(31) Posted by Arno Tungler [Saturday, Nov 9, 2019 15:55]; edited by Arno Tungler [19-11-09]

Yes, of course, Olaf! Thank you very much.
Here is another try, having the orthogonal/diagonal point of Jacques more emphasized:

(= 4+15 )

s#20

1.Q×g2+ Bf2! 2.Qxf2+ Sd2! 3.Q×d2+ Sc2 4.Q×c2+ Ka1 5.Qc1+ Ka2 6.Bb1+ Ka1 7.Bxe4+ Ka2 8.Bb1+ Ka1 9.Bxf5+ Ka2 10.Bb1+ Ka1 11.Bxg6+ Ka2 12.Bb1+ Ka1 13.Bxh7+ Ka2 14.Bb1+ Ka1 15.Bg6+ Ka2 16.B×f7+ e6! 17.B×e6+ Rd5 18.B×d5+ Bc4 19.B×c4+ b3+ 20.B×b3+ Q×b3‡

If this would really be C+ (still hope...), could you add the 14th capture of the last bP??
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18233
(32) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Saturday, Nov 9, 2019 18:00]

Test of your setting is still running.
I couldn't find a square for the last pawn.
With Bg1->h4 and a third knight at g1 we have 14 captures.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18234
(33) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Saturday, Nov 9, 2019 20:17]

what a funny and active composition workshop!

In the meanwhile my preference goes like AT to this :

(JM + JR + AT + OJ)?
(= 3+15 )

S#27
1.g8=F+ Rh8 2.F×f7+ Rh7 3.Fg8+ Rh8 4.F×e6+ Rh7 5.De7+ Rh8 6.Df6+ Rh7 7.D×g6+ Rh8 8.Df6+ Rh7 9.D×f5+ Rg7 10.Df6+ Rh7 11.De7+ Cf7+ 12.D×f7+ Rh8 13.Df8+ Rh7 14.Fg8+ Rh8 15.F×d5+ Rh7 16.Fg8+ Rh8 17.F×c4+ Rh7 18.Fg8+ Rh8 19.F×b3+ Rh7 20.Fg8+ Rh8 21.F×a2+ Rh7 22.Fg8+ Rh8 23.Fb3+ Rh7 24.Fc2+ Cd3 25.F×d3+ Ff5 26.F×f5+ Tg6+ 27.F×g6+ D×g6‡

About adding other white pieces : it seems to open a very large number of possible settings
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18235
(34) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [Saturday, Nov 9, 2019 20:45]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [19-11-09]

A very long windmill problem indeed. If correcr (isn’t it?) it would be a new record for a selfmate with a windmill, longer then the s#26 I linked earlier in the thread.

And it looks like the composers are Jam Margarite + Jelly Rum + Apple Tea + Orange Juice. When can we meet them? ;-)
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18236
(35) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Sunday, Nov 10, 2019 10:46]

Arno's (s#20, 13 captures) and Jacques' (s#27, 12 captures) settings are C+.
My share in s#27 is too small to join the authorship.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18237
(36) Posted by Arno Tungler [Monday, Nov 11, 2019 04:20]

Very grateful for your testing, Olaf! Here is another try with 13 captures in just 18 moves! Seems that all black pieces are really mandatory. especially the capture in the first move is needed as without the bPf4 White could immediately play 1.Bxe5+!

JM, JR & AT
(= 3+16 )

s#18

1.B×f4+ Bg4! 2.Qxg4+ Sg3 3.Q×g3+ Kh1 4.Q×h3+ Kg1 5.Bh2+ Kh1 6.B×e5+ Kg1 7.Bh2+ Kh1 8.B×d6+ Kg1 9.Bh2+ Kh1 10.B×c7+ Kg1 11.Bh2+ Kh1 12.Bb8+ Kg1 13.B×a7+ b6 14.B×b6+ Sc5 15.B×c5+ Bd4 16.B×d4+ Re3+ 17.B×e3+ f2+ 18.B×f2+ Q×f2‡

Thus only 5 white non-capturing moves, is less possible with this matrix?

When searching for long pendulum selfmates on PDB I found the interesting P1264557. What says Gustav about that?
 
   
(Read Only)pid=18239
(37) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Monday, Nov 11, 2019 06:53]

The s#18 is C+.
I tested Kling's problem some times ago. It is correct, but not C+.
 
 
(Read Only)pid=18240

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