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MatPlus.Net Forum Selfmates The Belen Theme..... in a selfmate?!
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|(21) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Tuesday, Sep 10, 2019 00:18]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-09-10]|
Olaf, I am refering to post #4 of this thread, which contains my personal attempt at creating a true Valladao-Belen. It is a #4.
It is a shabby problem though-a capturing key to get out if check just to avoid duals, and the promotion is merely a waiting move, allowing for four duals via choice of promotion. Castling is a given since it a Belen, At least the en passant is genuine, in my view. A good bulk of the of the pawns are just to thwart off any duals that could arise from trying to use the promoted piece to give mate.
|(22) Posted by Rajendiran Raju [Friday, Sep 13, 2019 04:22]; edited by Rajendiran Raju [19-09-13]|
Congratulations J.Malcom, you got the placing in superproblem puzzle no : 26
|(23) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Friday, Sep 13, 2019 13:37]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-09-13]|
Thanks! This is the first thing of this kind for me! I actually sent in a proof game for my position just in case! But wow, the numbers are so high for this construction!
|(24) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Friday, Sep 13, 2019 21:10]; edited by seetharaman kalyan [19-09-13]|
J.Malcom is nice... why the pseudo name, what is its significance?
|(25) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Friday, Sep 13, 2019 23:03]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-09-13]|
Regarding my pseudonym, it’s just a name that I made up that I use in general on the Internet to protect myself. I figure that I would make an exception here in revealing my true name.
|(26) Posted by Zalmen Kornin [Saturday, Sep 14, 2019 15:49]; edited by Zalmen Kornin [19-09-14]|
The Valladao-Belen was reproduced in 2007 in an important magazine. The editor refers to a "theme" (the Belen), and to a "task", the Valladao. In my aforementioned article I wrote that the Belen is "too limited for a theme, and too easy for a task". But the combination with the Valladao is already reasonably challenging...
Your sketch for a #4: You have issues in most of the parts. The white King in check, the indifferent promotion (a singular promotion is highly desirable), the en-passant with (say) the 'single step dual'.
The Paros-Wettstein manoeuvre and castling checkmate works. Good luck with the repairs!
|(27) Posted by Rajendiran Raju [Saturday, Sep 14, 2019 19:17]|
Oh Malcom...quickly you and Olaf took part in the following superproblem article...
BTW > hope you seen today's puzzle no : 27
|(28) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Saturday, Sep 14, 2019 20:27]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-09-14]|
Thanks again Rajendiran!
I’m well of aware of the issues. with my #4, Zalmen. It was just. difficult for me to come up with something. As flawed as it is, at least it is orthodox.
Also, I think a new challenge for the Valladao-Belen has come from my mind: Justified promotions to a rook, bishop, and knight. That’ll be a toughie, especially for knight.
I did find some schemes for Belen-Promotion for bishop and knight promotions. They do have multiple issues though.
(= 11+4 )
Solution: 1. Nbxc3+ Kc2 2. g8=B (g8=Q? Rxcd5! 3. Qxd5 Stalemate) Rxd5 3. Bxd5 Kd3 4, 0-0-0# or 2... Rxc4 (3. Bxc4? Stalemate) 3. Bh7+ Re4 4. Bxc4#
(= 9+5 )
Solution: 1. Nbxc3+ Kc2 2. cxb8=N Rxa6 3. Nxa6 Kd3 4. 0-0-0#
I’m sure that someone can fix the capturing key/WK being in check somehow.
I’m still working on a rook promotion.
|(29) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Saturday, Sep 14, 2019 21:39]|
You only get a cigar if en passant is incorporated. It might be a Belen theme with underpromotion otherwise - which also is a very likable theme -, but not a Valladao.
|(30) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Saturday, Sep 14, 2019 23:26]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-09-30]|
Well of course, Siegfried, :-)! I was just experimenting with promotion motivations.
Can I have 3/4 of a cigar since this Valladao-Belen has a bad key? It does have a knight promotion!
(= 11+8 )
Solution: 1. Nbxc3+ Kc2 2. fxg8=N b5 3. axb6 Rxh6 4. Nxh6 Kd3 5. O-O-O#
Although Black has choices in their move order, White has no choice.
I basically hacked together my original, very bad Valladao-Belen with my Belen that has knight promotion,.along with a few dual stopping pieces.
A bad key, a #5 instead of a #4, the WK is in check, a shaky en passant, and a capture promotion, multiple problems plague my construction. But is just a start, meant to get the idea out there and to inspire others.
|(31) Posted by Zalmen Kornin [Sunday, Sep 15, 2019 13:07]; edited by Zalmen Kornin [19-09-15]|
It can be a fivemover (or even more). I said "at least" a fourmover... In my inaugural example fifteen years ago, the promotion is the key, and the promoted piece delivers a mate in a secondary variation to assure a singular promotion within the four moves...; in this one You will have clearance of 'b1' plus key both in one. But the promotion is (so to say) a two tempi manoeuvre - so the extra move. Not every scheme will brings a fourmover. Maybe a fivemover will turn to become the typical V-B...
***** Move all that Northeast constellation three columns to the left; then white pawn f4 to g6, and black pawn f5 to g7; a white pawn at a3; finally take that Bishop from c3 and place it in d8 (the black Queen goes out of the board). Now You have an initial position where White enjoys some liberty: try 1.c x Bd8 = N If 1...b6?, then 2.Nc3+ etc until mate in five. But Black can play 1...b5! Now the same 2.Nc3+ will not lead to a mate in five: 2...Kc2 and the Knight a4 is attacked. In this way You have at least a (so to say) 'virtual glimpse' of the en passant's unavoidability. Note that 1.cd8N is just an attempt (not exactly a try, because black can play also 1...c3! etc). *** Eventually, You can add a black Pawn to a5, to avoid the line 1.Nc3+ Kc2 2.cd8N b5 (or b6) 3.cb6 Rf7 4.Nc6 threatening the unrequested 5.Nb4#. Note that the same Rf7 move contains already a little dual - both moves leading to the Belén mate 5. 0-0-0. **Well, the en passant move is there. For me this is a Valladão (with a tiny sixth of a caveat). #You got Your cigar!?
|(32) Posted by Nikola Predrag [Sunday, Sep 15, 2019 17:01]; edited by Nikola Predrag [19-09-16]|
As a retro-patzer, I wonder if the following puzzle is correct and interesting for retro/forward solving:
(= 8+11 )
There should be no solution due to the illegality of castling?!
(Perhaps wS from b1 to d2 on the diagram would make a more proper retractor -2?)
|(33) Posted by Zalmen Kornin [Wednesday, Sep 18, 2019 15:14]; edited by Zalmen Kornin [19-09-18]|
Very interesting idea, Nikola! About the construction, legal matters etc, i think that guys like Thomas Brand, Hans Gruber, "Super" Mario Richter, etc, could give more authoritative advise
|(34) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Wednesday, Sep 18, 2019 16:47]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-09-22]|
So something like this, Zalmen?
(= 12+7 )
I hope you don’t mind me adding your name with mine. I consider the position to be a co-creation between us-I came up with the basic scheme and you turned it into a proper problem.
Correction: It appears that I am the maker of this problem according to Zalmen,
|(35) Posted by Nikola Predrag [Thursday, Sep 19, 2019 00:18]|
Thanks Zalmen for the comment.
I ventured into the unfamiliar retro-realm to explore a possibility of intertwining the 4 thematic features in a more intrinsic way.
E.p. capture in retro-play might be completely artificial as a thematic element and banality of an obvious promotion at an undefined moment before the diagram might be particularly annoying. But the point is not to show some interesting and precise retro-play.
bPh7 makes at least 3 captures to produce Ba5, just 1 too many, so Black can't refute by retracting -1.axb3 e.p. (to avoid blocking c4).
The only legal retraction spares 2 other black captures, so,
-1.cxb3e.p. b2-b4 & 1.Sc3+ Kc2 2.Qd3+ cxd3? 3.Se3#, but 2...Kxd3 refutes because bPh7 should have promoted on c1 to legalize 3.0-0-0#(?), which would require 5 captures by it, again just 1 too many.
Thus the banal fact about promoted Ba5 disallows retro-refutation by -1.axb3e.p. and supports the forward-refutation 2....Kxd3! 3.0-0-0=illegal!
The 3 thematic elements are tightly interwoven, well, if that all is correct in the first place.
|(36) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Thursday, Sep 19, 2019 00:33]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-09-30]|
A retro Valladao-Belen-a very nice idea Nikola!
I have finally found a Belen-Promotion scheme that has a rook promotion. I just has trouble finding the right sqaure to place to place the rook on. A bad key a usual (I like to use is it as a starting point at the least-it will always work and it is the easiest way to entrap the BK afaik), but why fix what isn’t broken, ;-)? Anyhoo, the position is actually not all that grotesque like my bishop one is, so that’s a bonus,
(= 12+4 )
Solution: 1. Nxc3+ Kc2 2. d8=R (d8=Q? Bxc4 Qxc4 Stalemate) Bxc4 3. Rxc4 Kd3 4, 0-0-0# or 2... Bb5 3. cxb5 Kd3 4. 0-0-0#
The difficult part is implenting an en passant somewhere in these rook and bishop schemes. The point of these underpromotions is to avoid a stalemate, but if there is a Black pawn able to move for the en passant part, well, then there is no stalemate. And as such, there will be queen promotions and duals galore. The only way I see to avert this is that, after e.p. capture that is somehow made mandatory,, if a queen had been promoted too, it would be stalemate. But if the underpromotion happened, then the BK can move to d3 with 0-0-0# to follow. This will surely be very difficult to do.
Or, alternately, a Black e.p capture could somehow be thrown in.
|(37) Posted by Zalmen Kornin [Sunday, Sep 22, 2019 13:37]; edited by Zalmen Kornin [19-09-22]|
Rewan: This is your problem ... The idea of the key that clears b1, and the device that provides the singular underpromotion are the pillars, is what gives the character to this composition. What I did was, not a work of "adding" content, but of "editing" (in a way, in the same sense as when referring to an audio-visual, for instance). The merely technical modifications are so obvious that soon someone else would surely appear with the same coordinates. (Note that the Problem is already "published", no longer an "original" because it was discussed openly.) Thanks for Your interest in the Valladao-Belen!
"MatPlus Forum" 15-ix-2019
(edited by zk)
(= 12+7 )
|(38) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Sunday, Sep 22, 2019 16:56]|
Uh, thanks Zalmen, That’s just flattering....and you’re very welcome!
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MatPlus.Net Forum Selfmates The Belen Theme..... in a selfmate?!