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MatPlus.Net Forum General Terminology
 
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(1) Posted by Michael McDowell [Tuesday, Jun 11, 2019 07:43]

Terminology


The Roman, Dresden and Hamburg themes share a common structure, namely “a piece has a good defence to a threat – a piece is decoyed – a piece has a bad defence to a threat”.

As I understand it the difference is as follows (letters refer to the good defender, the piece decoyed and the bad defender):

Roman A A A
Dresden A A B
Hamburg A B A

Are there theme names for the possibilities A-B-B and A-B-C?
 
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(2) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Tuesday, Jun 11, 2019 09:00]

(At least) in German, yes.
Palitzsch-Dresden AAB
Brunner-Dresden ABA
Wechselform(or Hilfsstein)-Dresden ABC
...if I didn't botch up the first two. To check:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Brunner
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Palitzsch

Hauke
 
 
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(3) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Tuesday, Jun 11, 2019 21:03]

Well, the 5 themes are the following with order: “a piece has a good defence to a threat – a piece is decoyed – a piece has a bad defence to a threat”

Roman A – A – A
Hamburg A – B – A
Palitzsch-Dresden A – A – B
Brunner-Dresden A – B – B
Wechselform-Dresden A – B – C

Also from www.dieschwalbe.de/kompositionsturniere.htm" target=_blank>https://www.dieschwalbe.de/kompositionsturniere.htm

Dresden idea:

A strong defence by one black piece is eliminated, but another, yet weaker defence by a second black piece, newly brought into play, substitutes for it. Depending on how the strong defence is eliminated there are three main types of the Dresden theme.

Palitzsch-Dresden: The black piece that would refute White's original plan is decoyed and this activates another black piece whose new defence against White's original plan, however, is not successful.
Brunner-Dresden: The black piece that would refute White's original plan is obstructed or interfered with or self-pinned by the other black piece whose new defence against White's original plan, however, is not successful.
Three-piece Dresden (Wechselform-Dresdner; also Hilfsstein-Dresdner; also Changed-Form-Dresden): The weaker piece substitutes for the strong one through the move of a third black piece (maybe a bi-valve).

Additionally, I especially like name Elbe theme that requires Hamburg and Dresden synthesis - river Elbe (Labe) is connecting those two cities.
 
   
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(4) Posted by Michael McDowell [Tuesday, Jun 11, 2019 21:40]

Many thanks for the replies.

The question was prompted by the following interesting problem, which features consecutive decoys. I wondered how to describe the content.

Hans Vetter
3rd Prize Schach 1969
(= 6+12 )

Mate in 4

1.Qd6? (>2.Qxe6) d4!

1.Sxe3? (>2.Sg4) Qe2, Qxg2!

1.g3! (>2.Qf7+ Kxe5 3.Qf4)
1... Se2
2.Sxe3 Qd4
3.Qd6 Qxe5
4.Qd8
 
   
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(5) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Tuesday, Jun 11, 2019 23:46]

The decoy 1.g3! Se2 seems to show the Hamburg theme as knight changes effective defence of bQ (if one can tolerate double refutation - I would tend to say yes, as the refutation idea is the same - guard of g4 by move along b2-g2 line).

Then the original defence of the first try by 1...d4 is replaced by three originally non-existent defences, 1...Dxe5, 1...Dg4 or 1...Sf4, thus emphasizing the Dresden idea - both bQ and bS have been decoyed and exactly those pieces make the defences instead of Pd5. Thus it looks like mixture of Brunner and Wechselform of Dresden, depending on how you define "decoyed piece".

But in my opinion this is example of Elbe theme.

(But I am not so much expert in the logical school.)
 
   
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(6) Posted by Frank Richter [Wednesday, Jun 12, 2019 13:27]

The given problem is cited in "407 Aufgaben und Studien" and classified there as "impressive demonstration of a Hamburger". This was written by Manfred Zucker, surely an expert of the logical school.
 
   
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(7) Posted by Torsten Linß [Friday, Jun 14, 2019 09:48]

The problem shows both, Hamburg and Brunner.

I wouldn't consider 3... Qg4,Sf4 4.S(x)g4# to be part of the thematic complex as it "reactivates" an earlier threat.

BTW, a good source for the new-German terminology is Rehm/Eisert's translation into English of the "Referend".
 
   
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(8) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Monday, Jun 17, 2019 19:30]

Torsten, thanks for explaining why 3... Qg4, Sf4 are not so important to the Dresden idea.

I can only recommend "Cleric's Idea", very readable!
 
   
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(9) Posted by Neal Turner [Wednesday, Jun 19, 2019 09:01]

Reading the Cleric's book we see that the Logical School is not only a great source of excellent chess problems, but an even greater source of debate about what actually constitutes the Logical School.
It's good to see this venerable tradition upheld here.
 
 
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MatPlus.Net Forum General Terminology