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MatPlus.Net Forum Feedback by Members pastime
 
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(1) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Monday, Jun 4, 2007 12:44]

pastime


Many mistakes of tiping are made. At the beginning the administrator kindly corrected what he could. But now there are too many things to look after - due to the success !
i.e. Yochanan wrote 1st June pb 3 1e3 instead of e3.
I believe the administrator will still correct it.

A suggestion could be to have interactive diagrams where you move the pieces instead of tiping.

Other suggestions :

to show a clock during the solving time

to be able from the general table of anybody to click on a problem and see it immediatly.

to find a way of rewarding the quick solvers (I am not one of them). I don't really know how to give a good suggestion.

Perhaps :

to take 0,05 point from the mark every 60 s (so that even a beginner solving in less than 20 mns receives something)


 
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(2) Posted by Administrator [Monday, Jun 4, 2007 13:36]

 QUOTE 
i.e. Yochanan wrote 1st June pb 3 1e3 instead of e3.

OK, I corrected the typos again - among 75 incorrect keys claimed so far only 4 were obvious typing errors.

By the way, Jacques, let me teach you what my friend, the late Vladan Vuckovic, thought me many years ago. This is the quote found on the Web:
The abbreviation e.g. is for the Latin exempli gratia, "for example." I.e., Latin id est, means "that is." They're not interchangeable. Both abbreviations should be followed by a comma.
I had also been using "i.e." where I ment "e.g." (e.g., in Mat Plus Vol.I and II).

 QUOTE 
A suggestion could be to have interactive diagrams where you move the pieces instead of tiping.

Provide me with a good applet and I will be happy to use it!

 QUOTE 
to show a clock during the solving time

Clock is not the problem - I thought of it but, the lazy as I am, I thoght it would be an unnecessary complication for me. Anyway, I am afraid that the clock could detract the solver's attention.

 QUOTE 
to be able from the general table of anybody to click on a problem and see it immediatly.

Well, another complication...

 QUOTE 
to find a way of rewarding the quick solvers (I am not one of them). I don't really know how to give a good suggestion.

This is the first time I hear somebody else (than me) to suggest something like this! I have been propagating for 30 years either to decrease the time, or to base the calculation on time used for (correct) solving. I have always been outvoted... I wonder why :)
 
 
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(3) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Monday, Jun 4, 2007 14:38]

Thank you for the english (i'll need even more lessons...).
About suggestions, it is just because you asked for some, It is already perfect as it is.
 
   
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(4) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Friday, Jun 8, 2007 14:34]

Allow me to answer, too.

 QUOTE 
A suggestion could be to have interactive diagrams where you move the pieces instead of tiping.

Optionally it would be enough if the moves are tested for conventions (e.g., a number at the end; if it starts with a capital, a minuscule must follow; x and other capture symbols are not allowed(. Surely, the ability to type castling (O-O or 0-0-0, by the way?) must remain but it shouldn't be too hard to implement, too.

I think, it should give a warning and stay on the diagram screen if a wrong thing is entered. It doesn't have to check the validity of moves (someone typed Rg8 some time ago when Rf8 was obviously meant) but if it can be possible solutions. I hope everyone understands what I want to say.

 QUOTE 
to show a clock during the solving time
I disagree with this for the same reasons as MV.

 QUOTE 
to be able from the general table of anybody to click on a problem and see it immediatly.
Only those you have already solved, of course. Yes, maybe there should be a database with all problems older than seven days.

 QUOTE 
to find a way of rewarding the quick solvers (I am not one of them).
But not in a manner that leads to cheating. There are a lot of Senkus-like people.

 QUOTE 
to take 0,05 point from the mark every 60 s (so that even a beginner solving in less than 20 mns receives something)

I think, there should be a certain limit, maybe at 10 minutes so even late solving gets half a point. Or at 15 minutes so one still gets 0.25 points for a correct solution. It would be plain anti-pedagogic to penalize people who take longer than 20 minutes for solving at all (i.e., by losing lifetime for nothing).

Experienced solvers will solve within ten minutes almost every twomover (and maybe within 30 minutes every threemover except the famous "Steinitz Gambit") anyway.
 
   
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(5) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Friday, Jun 8, 2007 15:45]

Naturally, I do not agree with the last sentence. Firstly, it depends on whom you call experienced solver. Somebody from world Top 100? World top 200? Rating over 2100?

Even these strong solvers time to time fail to solve twomover within 10 minutes and often fail to solve threemover within 30 minutes. Just check result tables on Lubo Siran's solving website - although it is not entirely clear from them, a high number of 0s and under-avergae results hints it is not always so easy.

One example - rounds 1 and 2 of this year's Slovak solving championship: http://www.geocities.com/solvingchess/2007/svk2007.html
 
   
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(6) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Friday, Jun 8, 2007 21:36]

Ok, sorry! :-)
I'll take the last sentence back.
 
 
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(7) Posted by Administrator [Friday, Jun 8, 2007 22:34]

Aren't we giving too much significance to solving tests? They are introduced only for training and entertaiment. The purpose of result tables is just to give the solver a possibility to compare his/her performance, as well as to offer some statistics about the difficulty of problems, types of errors, etc., etc. a lot of (useful?) information can be extracted.

Anyway, I have written a small function - will be uploaded shortly - which checks the formal syntax of the key, namely following patterns (with formally correct key samples in second column):
 
patternsample
pcdSe4, [P]e4
pccdsde4, [P]de4
pdcdS2e4, s3xe4
oo00, 0-0, o-o
ooo000, 0-0-0, 0-O-o (for castling)
pcdpSe4, [P]d8=Q, d8s
pccdp[P]ed8=q, cd8S

  • p = piece symbol, c = character a..h, d = digit 1..8, o = 0, O or o
  • all interpunction (captures, checks etc.) is ignored anyway
  • lowercase piece symbols are recognized, except when the bishop moves to a- or c-file.
  • en passant capture should not be indicated, e.g., "de6 ep" = wrong, "de6" = OK


I have only one request for you: please enjoy, don't compete!
 
   
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(8) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Saturday, Jun 9, 2007 02:37]

 QUOTE 
please enjoy

I do, I would even more without time pressure (regarding the seven days availability). But then maybe I wouldn't solve at all. Well, I ask the readers for opinion about those seven days hereby.
 
   
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(9) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Thursday, Jun 28, 2007 09:09]; edited by Siegfried Hornecker [07-06-28]

Since the seven days remained, I decided to publish a database with pastime problems (that are older than seven days, of course). Until now, I just started with the first two days but I'd like to give the link here (about 5.24 KB) as a demo version.
Please send me your opinion and criticism either via PM, e-mail or this thread.
http://sh-kunstschach.eu/download/pastime_demo.pgn

*hijacking the thread*

PS, two hours later:
Please send comments! Where are you? Somebody must be online!


PPS (after Haukes reply): It will be available in CBH format too, if you want.
 
   
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(10) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Thursday, Jun 28, 2007 12:27]

MatPlus is not ICQ, y'know :-)

One comment: PGN isn't exactly a lucky format for
chess problems anyway. E.g. in my reader it
automatically shows the end position.

Hauke
 
   
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(11) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Thursday, Sep 6, 2007 10:45]

According to Winchloe and other sources

The author of the pb 6 of pastime Sept. 06 is L.I. Kubbel (and not Isaev L.A. (as written in Winchloe))
 
   
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(12) Posted by Milan Velimirović (+) [Thursday, Sep 6, 2007 13:18]; edited by Milan Velimirović (+) [07-09-06]

Sorry for that. I like to solve the problems (or at least as many of them as I have time for it) before I give it to you so I take them from a "pure", non-processed data sources without solutions to spoil my solving. This particular problem was taken from the original version of ISAEFF.PBM file ("Problemiste" archives) which are usually without solutions.

I am really sorry, but I cannot afford to spend more time to check each and every information. Anyway, thank you for signalling the error, Jacques.
 
   
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(13) Posted by Marcos Roland [Thursday, Sep 6, 2007 16:30]

Thank you, Milan Velimorovic, for your "pastime". I enjoy it very much. It's a pity that other solvers around the world don't visit it; maybe they don't know it.
I live in Brazil, I used to be a composer of helpmates and a solver. This year I'm coming back to chess, after some years of retirement, and your daily pastime is a gift for me.
Thank you again!

Marcos
 
   
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(14) Posted by Milan Velimirović (+) [Thursday, Sep 6, 2007 16:51]

My pleasure, Marcos!
 
   
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(15) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Thursday, Sep 6, 2007 18:39]

I hope you understand that it is not a complaint at all

At the opposit, because the seriousness of your work, and the pleasure it gives, you give energy for correcting any small mistake - if found.

I knew this problem pretty well, that's why I could notice the point.

Sorry to tell, generally, I don't controll anything, just enjoy the solving.
 
   
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(16) Posted by Milan Velimirović (+) [Thursday, Sep 6, 2007 18:57]

No big deal, I just wantid to apologize for my error and to explain. Since you signal came through Forum I answered here, just as I was answering to your personal notes accordingly. Thanks again for your help!
 
   
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(17) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Friday, Sep 7, 2007 00:35]

Why don't you give anymore the sources and authors ?
 
   
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(18) Posted by Administrator [Sunday, Sep 9, 2007 01:09]

There was the error in #6 of today's test (Sept 9th) - the position was mistakenly been specified in FIDE Album instead of English notation, resulting with a bunch of question marks on the diagram. Marcos Roland is invited to try this problem again, while Jacques Rotenberg's time is set to the average of other 5 problems.

My apologize for this mistake. My thanks to Mr. Rotenberg for signaling the error.
 
   
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(19) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 16:06]; edited by Jacques Rotenberg [07-09-23]

In pastime, in the test of today, Milan proposed to solve a very good, and very wellknown problem :

Samuil Leites
Schach 1975 1st Prize
(= 7+4 )
2#

1…Bd6 a 2.Sg5‡ A
1…Rg7 b 2.Sf4‡ B
1…S×g3+ 2.Q×g3‡

1.Qf6! [2.Sg5 A,Sf4‡ B]
1…Bd6 a 2.Qh4‡
1…Rg7 b 2.Q×f1‡
1…S×g3+ 2.R×g3‡

an interesting version could be :

(= 7+5 )


this adds exchanged mates :

1.Qc8? [2.Sg5 A,Sf4‡ B]
1…Bxd6 a 2.Sf4‡ B
1…Rxg7 b 2.Sg5‡ A
1…S×g3!

so to have all in all : Dombrovskis paradox, Zagorouiko, exchanged mates
 
   
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(20) Posted by Vladimir Tyapkin [Sunday, Sep 23, 2007 20:39]; edited by Vladimir Tyapkin [07-09-23]

Jacques, while 1.Qc8? is in interesting addition, Mr. Leites would probably disagree. He quoted this problem in his article 'Reversible combinations' as an example of combination of classics(Novotny and Barulin defences) and modern. In your version, Barulin defenses are gone.

On a side note, according to V.Rudenko and other Russian composers, adding a new thematic try to a known problem gives enough originality to publish it as your own(even without 'after Leites' remark). It is still true when settings in both problems are very similar.
 
   
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