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| (1) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Wednesday, Jan 24, 2024 20:29] |
ISC and WFCC sanctions
I have noticed that results of Cat 1 of ISC has no flags of countries under WFCC sanctions, while Cat 2 and Cat 3 results have many Russian flags.
This should be corrected in my view as Batumi WFCC meeting has extended previous Fujairah-agreed sanctions until further notice.
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| (2) Posted by Alain Villeneuve [Wednesday, Jan 24, 2024 23:32] |
Fou furieux.
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| (3) Posted by Alain Villeneuve [Thursday, Jan 25, 2024 00:20] |
I understand that Russian domination is unbearable for you, but you could have the modesty not to spew your hatred at the top of your lungs.
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| (4) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Thursday, Jan 25, 2024 01:41] |
@Alain,
the sanctions are not directed against specific people, but against the aggressor country, that attacked a neighbour country.
@Juraj,
By the way, the results are only preliminary. There is a proposal to keep the results of CAT 1 unrated, because the positions were made public before the event. In Fujairah, the tournament started 4 hours earlier, and pictures of the hall were posted online, and it was possible to see the positions.
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| (5) Posted by Joose Norri [Thursday, Jan 25, 2024 05:02] |
So it's true about Fujairah. I thought the photos I saw a couple of hours before leaving to solve were perhaps from last year... But wouldn't the normal decision be to disregard the Fujairah results - the rules were broken there. Why should others be harmed?
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| (6) Posted by shankar ram [Thursday, Jan 25, 2024 07:18] |
Because, hypothetically, people in other locations would have seen the positions, looked up the solutions (via solving programs), and prepared accordingly, in their own locations!
Even if posting photos online were prohibited, again, hypothetically, a solver in one of these "early rising" locations could have submitted his solution sheet quickly, taken his problem sheet outside, and transmitted a photo of it to his friend in one of the "later rising" locations, where the event had not yet started!
Something for the solving committee of the WFCC to ponder about.
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| (7) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Thursday, Feb 8, 2024 15:37] |
The WFCC ignored the obvious violations of ISC rules and published the results. I am aware that the central controller has informed WFCC management of the violations.
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| (8) Posted by Marjan Kovačević [Thursday, Feb 8, 2024 16:33] |
Viktoras, why do you publically spread alarming rumors about issues in your own organization?
The final WFCC report wasn’t made by the WFCC management.
It was the Central controller of the ISC 2024 Arvydas Mockus who carefully prepared it,
wrote and sent to the WFCC administrator for publication, as it is.
Why didn’t you consult your countryman first? Or members of Solving Committee?
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| (9) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Thursday, Feb 8, 2024 20:38] |
Marjan, we live in a democratic society, so we can discuss publicly.
Arvydas Mockus, as the Central controller, informed the Solving Committee about the violation and publicly available positions of some problems. I don't think he personally could have made the decision to void the entire tournament.
My questions:
1. Did the organizers in Fujairah violate the ISC rules?
2. What decision was made by the Solving Committee after the report of a possible violation?
General questions for discussion:
1) Is it acceptable that some participants from one country go to another country where the tournament is held at an earlier time?
2) Can't big prize money in some locations lead to fraud and corruption?
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| (10) Posted by Torsten Linß [Friday, Feb 9, 2024 00:58] |
To add to this, so far -- despite the (suspected?) irregularities -- there has been no **official** report by the presidium (or at least the 50% of it present at Fujairah) to the WFCC delegates explaining what happened. I am a delegate and I haven't received any information whatsoever.
When WFCC was founded, it had been based on democratic principles. It is not an autocracy where after election the president/presidium change rules as they deem to be useful. With the amount of money that is currently being pumped into our federation, and with travelling expenses covered for certain individuals we are at the fringe of running into an issue with a kind of corruption.
Furthermore, there was no official information beforehand (at the WFCC web site or by email to the delegates) about the huge prize money offered in Fujairah. Why was this information kept secret or only available to selected persons?
Torsten Linß
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| (11) Posted by Marjan Kovačević [Friday, Feb 9, 2024 20:12] |
Torsten, you are official WFCC delegate and should be even more responsible for your public statements about WFCC than Viktoras.
You obviously don’t know much about the topic, maybe even less than Viktoras,
but it doesn’t prevent you from posting very serious accusations against the Presidium in the first place.
Now that you have used a public platform for that, you are obliged to explain:
1. What amount of money has been “pumped” into our federation?
2. Who uses that money?
3. What “travelling expenses covered for certain individuals” you were writing about?
4. How do you imagine possible corruption or whatever you are aiming at?
5. What concrete WFCC rules were changed or disregarded (by the President/Presidium or anyone else)?
6. Have you ever participated in ISC? Do you know that WFCC has never been announcing prizes for individual locations?
7. Where were you in 2019 and 2020 when there were the same high prizes?
8. Why do you expect Presidium should inform you about the matters of Solving Committee?
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| (12) Posted by Marcos Roland [Friday, Feb 9, 2024 22:07] |
"We live in a democracy and we have the right to speak out". O.K., but at the same time we are used to see that this phrase or equivalent has been widely used to cover up an immense amount of nonsense, irresponsibility, and frivolity.
Sometimes the repeaters of this commonplace seem to forget that democratic coexistence presupposes rights like this but also implies duties and responsibilities. One of these elementary duties is: the accuser has the burden of proof. This may seem like an evasive and rhetorical consideration, which sticks to formalities not to mention facts, but the problem here is that there is no coherent set of concrete facts to analyze, but rather a jumble of disconnected considerations and suspicions, perhaps politically motivated.
Let us remember just two of the elements brought up here by the indignant boys: 1st) photos of the event in Fujairah were published on a website, which would have enabled solvers from other locations to have prior knowledge of the problems used in the event; 2nd) Fujairah organizers offered high prizes, and where there is money, corruption is to be found. I ask: what connection does one thing have with another, so that they are part of the same machination? If Fujairah organizers are involved with money and corruption, what interest would they have in benefiting solvers from other locations? And if they were interested in benefiting someone, wouldn't it be easier and more economical to simply send the problems to the beneficiaries by email, rather than challenging them to complexly identify such problems in a photographic image?
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| (13) Posted by shankar ram [Saturday, Feb 10, 2024 04:23] |
The Fujairah 2024 ISC invitation is publicly visible at this link:
https://allevents.in/al%20fujayrah/%E2%99%9F%EF%B8%8F5th-fujairah-endurance-chess-solving-championship-2024-%E2%99%9F%EF%B8%8F/200025906251016
And also at some other places.
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| (14) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Saturday, Feb 10, 2024 19:35] |
Marcos, I don't blame anyone on corruption or machinations. My first two questions are very simple (not at all the ones you wrote). Nobody here answered either of them. The tactic of deflecting the answer and blaming the person asking the question usually means that the person feels guilty or wants to hide something.
The last two questions do not address this specific situation but are general questions for discussion about ISC and its future. The last one concerns prize money and the honesty of the participants, not the organizers. I believe that prizes should not depend on the location. It may happen that the winner of a certain location will be rewarded more than the winner of the entire tournament. In addition, big prize money may encourage fraud. It is almost impossible to ensure that there are no leaks of diagrams when competitions are held at different times in several places.
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