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| (1) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Monday, Apr 30, 2007 19:47]; edited by Miodrag Mladenović [07-04-30] |
FA 2001-2003 - Moremovers Closing Date Extended
There is an interesting announcement at PCCC site. There is an extension of deadline for sending of moremovers for FA 2001-2003 but only for some composers, not for everyone. There is a list of composers who cannot send problems and everyone who is not on the list can send problems again. In my opinion this is not correct decision. If there is an extension of the deadline it should be same for everyone. What if somebody sent several letters and only one letter reached tournament director? Although I do not have any extra problems to send I think that everyone should be allowed to send additional problems if they do have some additional problems. Also, I am wondering how we know that only some moremovers are lost. What if there are lost problems in some other groups. Since there is no verification list of received problems it’s very possible that there are some missing problems in some other groups. Personally I did not get any confirmation for my problems (except selfmates) that they reached tournament directors. Does that means that if I find out that my twomovers did not went through after results of selection are published that there will be an extension of closing date for twomovers? Since some FA selection awards are already completed it would be a mess now to extend deadline for all groups. I am wondering what is opinion of other problemists?
Also, I think that going forward there should be a website where list of all received problems should be published before closing date. That way everyone would be able to verify if their problems are lost or not.
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| (2) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Monday, Apr 30, 2007 20:44] |
I think you misunderstood the text. To me it seems as if the text on the website means the problems not appearing in the list can be re-sent.
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| (3) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Monday, Apr 30, 2007 20:56] |
I think that you misunderstood my posting :). I wrote:
… There is a list of composers who cannot send problems and everyone who is not on the list can send problems again…
This have exactly same meaning as your statement. Or am I missing something?
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| (4) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Monday, Apr 30, 2007 21:32] |
I think it means composers shall see if all of their problems arrived and if not they may still send the lost problems again. IMO "that" means problems, not composers.
Maybe we should ask Mr. Marandyuk about this?
http://www.sci.fi/~stniekat/pccc/fa0103nx.htm
The composers who sent problems for this section that do not appear in the list below
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| (5) Posted by David Knezevic [Monday, Apr 30, 2007 21:54] |
Does anybody remember if problems from 6th WCCT belong to this Album (2001-03)?
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| (6) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Monday, Apr 30, 2007 23:56]; edited by Harry Fougiaxis [07-05-21] |
@ Siegfried : The way I'm reading this sentence is "The composers who sent problems for this section and their names do not appear in the list below..."
@ Misha : The question "what if somebody sent several letters and only one letter reached the tournament director?" is interesting. Theoretically this is possible, but the probability is so low that it should not be of any concern. The idea of "everyone being allowed to send additional problems if they do have some additional problems" does not sound good to me and it could create confusion for no apparent reason.
About other sections and potential extension : Very soon after we finished our work in the h#n section and the count of the selected problems was published on the PCCC site, the director informed us that he was contacted by two composers and he asked us whether we would wish to evaluate ten or so additional problems that never reached him. We agreed with no hesitation and we were right to do so, since six of them (all very nice compositions) were selected. I can't see any issue here.
About your proposal to have confirmation via a site : this is indeed a very good idea and it should be arranged somehow for the 2004-06 album. Degener, van der Heijden and Lörinc already have this info in their private pages.
http://www.schach-udo.de/info.html
http://home.studieaccess.nl/heijd336/home.html
http://members.tripod.com/~JurajLorinc/chess/alfi0406.htm
@ Milan : WCCT-6 problems were evaluated (although never submitted!) for FA 1998-2000
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~stniekat/pccc/fa9800.htm (see the note!)
WCCT-7 problems were submitted to FA 2001-03
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~stniekat/pccc/fa0103.htm
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| (7) Posted by Uri Avner [Tuesday, May 1, 2007 02:07] |
Referring to the sentence "The composers who sent problems for this section that do not appear in the list below are invited to resend their entries..." sorry for the possible double meaning.
The intended emphasis was on "problems", not "composers". This becomes clear after you pay attention to the text that follows.
If "composers" had been intended than there was no need for the indication of the number of entries, and the headline "List of entries received" would have been "List of composers" instead.
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| (8) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Tuesday, May 1, 2007 08:06] |
Ok, now I understand what intention was. I think it's good to accept problems after the closing date if for some reasons problems did not reach the tournament director. I just think that that should be solved systematically somehow and not partially like in this case. If helpmate moremovers are accepted after selection is published then we should publicly listed on PCCC site that after results are published additional problems can be submitted. It does not make sense that this depends on the good will of judges. Then, not everyone is checking PCCC site regularly. So if some composers did not see selection results because they are not published in the magazines they do not have chance to re-send their problems.
Also, what is happening with percentage of problems selected inside of album? I know that there are some rules that 15% of submitted problems should be selected (I am not sure about exact percentage). Now by accepting 10 new problems this percentage can be changed and theoretically problem that is already selected with 7.5 pts because of the points adjustment can be removed from the selection. So somebody who saw his name on the list at some point later on can see list without his name.
And finally the main question. Why is the closing date extended only for moremovers? How we can be sure that in other groups all problems reached tournament directors? Actually I can be sure that’s not the case based on the decision to accept 10 more problems for helpmate moremovers.
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| (9) Posted by Hannu Harkola [Tuesday, May 1, 2007 09:46] |
MM wrote:
"Since there is no verification list of received problems it’s very possible that there are some missing problems in some other groups..."
From the PCCC minutes 2005 (Eretria):
"Entries lost in the mail. Section directors should make a list of all entries received, to be put on the PCCC website, as a confirmation of receipt for composers."
But no list has been received before this moremover case.
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| (10) Posted by Uri Avner [Tuesday, May 1, 2007 09:56] |
Misha, all the points you've made are valid ones. It is my intention to do my best to seek for an optimal solution, beginning with Album 2004-06 onwards. The question of latitude allowed for section directors is a delicate one and should be approached with special care.
Regarding the moremovers for Album 2001-03, there is a special situation, as it seems that many entries have been lost in the mail due, possibly, to a great and long strike in Ukraine.
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| (11) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Tuesday, May 1, 2007 17:17] |
Uri, after reading all messages I think you did the right thing by extending closing date for moremovers. This is very unusual situation with a strike of postal worker in Ukraine. I hope everything will worked well and that there will be no other issues associated with this closing date extension. I think that going forward with a new Fide Albums when list of received problems is published in advance the whole process will work better.
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