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| | | (1) Posted by Dejan Glisić [Monday, Feb 18, 2008 11:14]; edited by Dejan Glisić [08-02-18] | National Chess Federations
I am interested in relationship between the chesscomposition societies and national chess federations in several countries. How does it work in your country, if you are under the roof of chess federation?
| | | (2) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Monday, Feb 18, 2008 13:47] |
In Germany, the SCHWALBE is a member of the Deutsche Schachbund with the
same rights as all regional federal sub-members. At least theoretically -
I never heard that the SCHWALBE could send a member to the German Mastership
over-the-board tourney. (Now of whom do I might think? :-)
Hauke
| | | (3) Posted by Frank Richter [Monday, Feb 18, 2008 15:53] |
A little bit off-topic: Hauke, do not forget Arno Zude ...
| | | (4) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 09:21] |
In Greece, we do not have any stand-alone Chess Problem Society (like in the UK or Germany, for instance). There is a committee of three persons (comprising of a member of the Chess Federation board who is a solver, another ex-member of the federation board who is also interested in chess problems and myself) that is reporting directly to the Federation. Our task is to arrange the national solving championship, to choose the WCSC team and to take care of other activities like lectures, chess problem happenings in OTB tournaments, etc. reporting directly to the Federation.
The Federation allocates some money for our activities each year and the committee prepares a budget plan which has to be approved by the Federation board. This amount used to be quite good in the past (for example we could even have money prizes in the Greek solving championship!), nowadays it has been decreased for the overall allowance given by the government to the Federation was recently curtailed; at least we can still cover a significant part of the expenses of the WCSC solvers. The Federation also helped us in the three WCCCs organisation (mainly sending out invitations to those who needed a visa and providing the chess boards), but there was no financial contribution since the congress is a self-funded "business". In general, I can say that the support we had so far can be considered quite satisfactory (considering also that the problemists' community in Greece is quite small.)
I understand that there have been lately certain (complicated) issues in Croatia among the problemists and the Federation. Perhaps it would be helpful that the PCCC Presidium is informed about them. Maybe there's not much scope for serious external help, but PCCC after all are meant to promote chess problems around the world. And, by the way, if there's a feeling that eventually there might be some trouble with the WCCI, it is imperative that the PCCC are at least made aware of it asap.
| | | (5) Posted by Dejan Glisić [Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 09:50]; edited by Dejan Glisić [08-02-19] |
Dear Harry,
I already know that you were very good organisers of three congresses. I believe that You have great respect in Greece, it seems that you don´t need any special society! I have to say here that regional Chess Federation of Zagreb and city autorities helped us very much for Inter City Solving Ty, National Championship, for WCSC and so on. But for ISC, WCSC, ECSC and national championships we need permition (and support) of national federation, according to law. I am not sure about WCCI. I believe that PCCC can help.
| | | (6) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 10:11] |
QUOTE
But for ISC, WCSC, ECSC and national championships we need permission (and support) of national federation, according to law.
Could you provide some more details on this? It seems that you can't get such a permission, or what?! In Greece, there is also a government law that whenever an athlete participates in some tournament abroad, he should get permission from the relevant Federation and the Federation has to inform the Ministry of Sports. It is irrelevant if his/her expenses are covered by the Federation, if he/she is a composer or a solver, in all cases he/she has to submit a request to the Federation to get the approval. We did not face any problem so far to get the approval, to me it is only bureaucracy.
| | | (7) Posted by Dejan Glisić [Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 10:17]; edited by Dejan Glisić [08-02-20] |
The same law is in Croatia too.
P.S.
Our Chess Federation dismissed our/their committee for problem-chess, established another membership fee for problemists (so players-problemists now pay two times). We established two associations, my association paid membership fee for 25 members, but nothing from organistion of ISC - 2008. We didn´t even get an answer to our letter. I am not a member of Chess Federation any more (because I don´t want to pay them again). Well Harry, may I participate your tourneys if I am not a member of CF?
| | | (8) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Wednesday, Feb 20, 2008 08:30] |
QUOTE
We established two associations, my association paid membership fee for 25 members, but nothing from organistion of ISC 2008.
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. These two associations that you are referring to are for problemists? And why should you pay a fee to the Federation? (in Greece, we don't pay any fee).
QUOTE
Well Harry, may I participate your tourneys if I am not a member of CF?
What do you mean with the term "my" tourneys? Why do you think that you are not allowed to participate in tournaments organised by PCCC, if you are not a member of your national federation?
| | | (9) Posted by Dejan Glisić [Wednesday, Feb 20, 2008 09:01]; edited by Dejan Glisić [08-02-20] |
O.K: Of course, also I have to mention some good things in last period.
Chess Federation permited to "USP" associaton (see http://www.problemonline.com/hrvatski/index.htm) to organise national championship 2007. I checked, the Federation returned to USP about 1/3 of membership fee for that championship (about 140 Euros). I heard that Federation also permited to Danko Gazarek and Nikola Predrag to organise our national solving team for ECSC in Pardubice, so our team participated ECSC. At the end of year, Federation returned about 2/3 of membership fee to USP for ECSC, it was about 280 Euros. And this seems to be O.K.
Other things about delegate and Rhodos, about MT Hrvoje Bartolovic, even about WCCI, it is better to ask Mr. Zvonimir Hernitz. Also about ISC 2007 and ISC 2008.
I did not know that Die Schwalbe is under the German "Schachbund". They realy have few good chessproblem and chess magazines (Rochade Europa, Schach...) which bring lot of compositions and informations about solving competitions. Also the Slovakian SOKS or NBSV from Netherland, for example, as free chesscomposition organisations are very successful and it is honour to be their contributor. Pity, our Sahovski glasnik, as official magazine of CCF, did not wrote about ECSCs and WCSCs from 2002 untill today, not even about our national championship 2007. Never mind! It seems that my column (http://freenet-homepage.de/pzr-dig/idm.htm) in puzzle magazine was the only column in Croatia which brought some informations about ECSCs, WCSCs and other solving competitions last few years. Isn´t it silly? So, in my opinion it is better to subscribe to some chesscomposition magazine and give the money to our chesscomposition friends!
Answers to your questions: 1) We paid membership fee because Chess Federation established a membership fee. Without paying it, chess problemist in Croatian Chess Federation does not have any rights!
1b) We established two Chessproblem associations in Croatia, under the authority of Chess Federation (out of Federation we don´t have right to compete).
2) When I said "your tourneys" I mean Greek tourneys (the question is also for the PCCC activities).
P.S. Now I received our new "Law about Sport" from June 2006. There is no more obligation that individual sportsmen have to get permition from National Federation to participate foreign tourneys (in older Law it was forbiden without permition, it caused troubles in 2005). It is very, very good!
| | | (10) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Wednesday, Feb 20, 2008 17:02] |
Now, it is clear, thanks for the clarifications.
QUOTE
We established two chess problem associations in Croatia
Why two associations are necessary for a "small" country like Croatia?
QUOTE
When I said "your tourneys" I mean Greek tourneys (the question is also for the PCCC activities).
P.S. Now I received our new "Law about Sport" from June 2006. There is no more obligation that individual sportsmen have to get permission from National Federation to participate foreign tourneys (in older Law it was forbidden without permission, it caused troubles in 2005). It is very, very good!
So, is this issue resolved now?!
| | | (11) Posted by Dejan Glisić [Thursday, Feb 21, 2008 13:01]; edited by Dejan Glisić [08-02-21] |
Dear Harry,
it is long story about 1 commitee and two associations after that. Lot of details which maybe are not for this Forum. Maybe I send you longer answer... I am not convinced that our Federation had respect for our problemists from 2004, when some new Bosses came on the head of Federation. This story is older than our two associations! This story maybe started with WCCCs in Pula. Maybe we have to fight against the prejudices about problemists.
About participation of individual composers/solvers: I shall obey the rules of PCCC for competitions of PCCC. But I asked myself - am I welcome at chessproblem competitions of your Chess Federation (for example) if I am not member of my Chess Federation. Now I see - Greek Federation have respect for their problemists! I believe - this is resolved!
P.S. Why two associations? Why not 3 of them, maybe it is good idea. With 3 associations (clubs) we can establish our own and independent National Chessproblem Federation (according to law)! Sounds funny, but maybe it is the best solution!
- I can tomorow establish the third association.
| | | (12) Posted by Dejan Glisić [Friday, Feb 22, 2008 11:33]; edited by Dejan Glisić [08-02-28] |
I don´t believe in good will of our CF Bosses. My opinion is that things get worse from 2004 when new Bosses came in front of the Federation. Our Commitee was the only one which get less money in 2004 and our budget plan was not approved. When we get more then 30 members into the “USP” association (our dominant activity was solving) reaction of CF Bosses was something like: “Well, well! It became massive! Now we are going to establish some membership fee for your members!”. Is it a good will? (Out of National Federation we can´t compete or organize competitions, according to law). I believe that federations have to help us, to find some sponsors for our activities and so on, but it seems that I am wrong! They have solid budget, they have some good sponsors, they get some money from state-budget or other fondations. Why they don´t want to help us? In the year 2003 our CF Bosses eliminated two from four chessproblem pages in Sahovski glasnik and Mr. Varga refused to be editor without 4 pages. Than the Bosses appointed Mr. Nesek for editor and till today Sahovski glasnik did not wrote about ECSCs or WCSCs. Few times our national solving teams were waiting for permitions in the last minute or even after the “closing dates” (Piotr Murdzia knows about ECSC 2005). In 2006 our CF Bosses proposed to Chess Federation to dismiss the Commitee for problem-chess and the chess-players dismissed us! We were always minority and it will be forewer. And always bureaucracy and players will make decisions about our destiny. Where the art of chess composition will get at last?
Maybe the Presidium of PCCC is great enough to ask them for good will like Piotr Murdzia did in 2005. Or maybe the third association (club) and establishment of our National Chesscomposition Federation is only good solution.
Dear Harry, I am sure that you already heard many times about our situation, from many sources. Now I am exposing some aspects in public form, as journalist. Maybe this way can start some good changes, I hope. (For chessproblemists, not for me - it is over).
By the way, I was vice-president of “USP” association but I resigned and get out of association. These are not official opinions of “USP” association!
Thank you for patience!
P.S. Sorry about language and grammar.
| | | (13) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Friday, Feb 22, 2008 14:56] |
It is so sad to see such a pathetic situation in the country that raised Nenad Petrovic and Voiko Bartolovic, just to mention two of the most outstanding Croatian problemists. At least I hope that you will eventually get some help from the PCCC.
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