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| (161) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Thursday, Mar 31, 2022 23:06] |
Arno, great work!
Unfortunately your ser-=19 is cooked:
1. cxb7 2.bxc8R 3. Rxb8 4. Rxa8 5.Rxa7 6. Rxc7 7. Rxd7 8. Be6 9. g4 10. g5 11. g6 12. gxh7 13. hxg8S 14. Sh6 15. Sxf7 16. Sxd8 17. Sf7 18. Sxh8 19. Sg6=
But the position with Bh5 is C+ !
Please change your diagram to fit with the entry in the list.
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| (162) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Thursday, Mar 31, 2022 23:36] |
Joost, my idea is:
Even in a reflex-stalemate white has to build a cage before.
So the difference between ser-s= and ser-r= is only in the last moves.
If there is no cook during the last, say 6 moves, the ser-r= might be
as sound as the ser-s= .
Did I miss something?
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| (163) Posted by Dragan Stojnić [Friday, Apr 1, 2022 00:57] |
Try for ser=18(c?)
 (= 5+16 )
(with little hope probably...)
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| (164) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Friday, Apr 1, 2022 01:33] |
Cooked:
1.Te5-d5 2.Td5xd7 3.Lf4xc7 4.Lc7xd8 5.Bf3-f4 6.Bf4-f5 7.Bf5-f6 8.Bf6xg7 9.g7xh8D 10.Dh8xh7 11.Dh7xg8 12.Td7xb7 13.Tb7xb8 14.Tb8xc8 15.Tc8xa8 16.Ta8xa7 17.Ld8xe7=
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| (165) Posted by Arno Tungler [Friday, Apr 1, 2022 06:45] |
@161: Thank you, Olaf, I have changed the diagram of (159), hopefully I understood it right...
On the reflex-stalemate I agree with Joost, the possibilities for a suitable alternate cage are much more as the last black move does not need to be forced. But an even more valid point is that (series)reflexmates or -stalemates should really be published as helpmates or -stalemates with switched colors and rotated boards if they have no try that does not work due to a reflexmate or stalemate by White! I learnt that as one of my first fairy lessons by bernd ellinghoven and Hanspeter Suwe in 1977 when I sent in my PDB P1371738 as a ser-r# and it was published like in PDB...
Therefore, I recommend to publish here the corresponding problems with a white full homebase and as series-helpmates/stalemates IF THERE IS NO REFLEX in the play. Maybe then they are even easier to test with the intelligent mode!
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| (166) Posted by Joost de Heer [Friday, Apr 1, 2022 07:29] |
QUOTE
So the difference between ser-s= and ser-r= is only in the last moves.
QUOTE
the possibilities for a suitable alternate cage are much more as the last black move does not need to be forced
The other difference is that you don't need to make sure that the stalemating move is the only legal move. E.g. in the ser-r=16 attempt: White doesn't need to capture Pg7, which would prevent the s= but not the r=, freeing up moves for other purposes.
QUOTE
Maybe then they are even easier to test with the intelligent mode!
I doubt it.
The inverted ser-r=11 as ser-h=11 is 3b4/6p1/8/8/3k4/8/PPPPPPPP/RSBQKBSR
Without intelligent mode: Solution found in 12 seconds
With intelligent mode: I stopped the calculations after a minute when Popeye was only at 1+7.
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| (167) Posted by Arno Tungler [Friday, Apr 1, 2022 11:24] |
Could this work?
 (= 4+16 )
Ser-=19. C?
1.Bh5 2.f4 3.f5 4.f6 5.fxg7 6.gxh8=Q 7.Qxh7 8.Qxg8 9.Qg1 10.Qxa7 11.Qxa8 12.Qxb8 13.Qxc7 14.Qb6 15.c7 16.cxd8=B 17.Bxe7 18.Bxf8 19.Bd6=
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| (168) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Friday, Apr 1, 2022 16:58] |
No, 4 solutions:
1.Lf3-d1 2.Ld1-a4 3.Bf2-f4 4.Bf4-f5 5.Bf5-f6 6.Bf6xg7 7.g7xh8S 8.Sh8xf7 9.Sf7xd8 10.Bc6xb7 11.b7xc8D 12.Dc8xc7 13.Dc7xb8 14.Db8xa7 15.Da7xa8 16.Da8-h1 17.Dh1xh7 18.Dh7xg8 19.Sd8-e6=
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| (169) Posted by Arno Tungler [Friday, Apr 1, 2022 21:55] |
Thank you, Olaf!
This could be corrected by an additional wPe2 that should not add any new problems as far as I can see. Could you try again?
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| (170) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Friday, Apr 1, 2022 22:13] |
 (= 6+16 )
ser-hs#7 (C+)
1.fxe6 2.-4.exd3 5.-6.d1Q 7.Qg4 Bg6+ 8.hxg6#
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| (171) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Saturday, Apr 2, 2022 00:14] |
 (= 11+16 )
ser-hs#8 (C?)
1.exf6 2.-5.Kb4 6.-8.Ba5 a3+ 9.Kc5#
 (= 8+16 )
ser-hs#10 (C?)
1.ef6 2.-3.Qxe4 4.-7.Kb4 8.-10.Ba5 a3+ 11. Kc5#
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| (172) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Saturday, Apr 2, 2022 00:51] |
Arno, it's cooked again:
1. cxb7 2. bxc8Q 3. Qxc7 4. Qxb8 5. Qxa7 6. Qxa8 7. Qe4 8. Qxh7 9. Qxg8 10. Qxg7 11. Qxh8 12. Bh5 13. f4 14. f5 15. f6 16. fxe7 17. exd8B 18. Be7 19. Kd6=
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| (173) Posted by Arno Tungler [Saturday, Apr 2, 2022 06:53] |
@Thanks a lot! And next try with switch of K and P...
 (= 5+16 )
Ser-=19. C?
1.Bh5 2.f4 3.f5 4.f6 5.fxg7 6.gxh8=Q 7.Qxh7 8.Qxg8 9.Qg1 10.Qxa7 11.Qxa8 12.Qxb8 13.Qxc7 14.Qb6 15.c7 16.cxd8=B 17.Bxe7 18.Bxf8 19.Bd6=
EDIT: No, now I see that your first cook anyhow works with 1.cxb7 2.Bc6 3.Ba4 etc. So, it seems that 18 moves is the maximum with this scheme...
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| (174) Posted by Arno Tungler [Sunday, Apr 3, 2022 08:57] |
Here is still another try…
 (= 5+16 )
Ser-=19 C?
1.Bh5 2.g4 3.g5 4.g6 5.gxh7 6.hxg8=Q 7.Qxh8 8.Qxg7 9.Qg1 10.Qxa7 11.Qxa8 12.Qxb8 13.Qxc7 14.Qb6 15.c7 16.cxd8=B 17.Bxe7 18.Bxf8 19.Bd6=
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| (175) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Sunday, Apr 3, 2022 09:24] |
blank
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| (176) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Sunday, Apr 3, 2022 11:18] |
many cooks:
1. Bd1 2. Ba4 3. g4 4. g5 5. e6 6. Bg6 7. Bxh7 8. hxg8Q 9. Qxh8 10. Qh2 11. Qxc7 12. Qxb8 13. Qxa7 14. Qxb7 15. Bc7 16. cxd8S 17. Sxf7 18. Kg6 19. Qxa8=
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| (177) Posted by Arno Tungler [Sunday, Apr 3, 2022 12:02] |
Thank you! Maybe +wPf3?
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| (178) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Sunday, Apr 3, 2022 18:01] |
Cooked:
1. e6 2. cxb7 3. bxa8S 4. Sb6 5. Sxc8 6. Sxa7 7. Sc6 8. Sxd8 9. Sxf7 10. Sg5 11. Sxh7 12. Sxf8 13. Sxd7 14. Sxb8 15. Kg6 16. Kxg7 17. Kxh8 18. Kxg8 19. Sc6=
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| (179) Posted by Dragan Stojnić [Sunday, Apr 3, 2022 18:11] |
With incomplete Black homebase I have ser=20:
 (= 3+15 )
(C?)
Unfortunatelly with +Bf8 I cannot to find correct ser=21 without duals(and Bh4 removed to a1)
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| (180) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Sunday, Apr 3, 2022 18:35] |
C+
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