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| (1) Posted by James Malcom [Friday, Jul 10, 2020 03:27]; edited by James Malcom [20-07-10] |
Changed promotion depending on a Black piece's play
I recently had an idea for pawn promotion-it changes play based on where a Black piece goes.
I managed to whip up a correct version of my idea after some trying. It has quite a subtle key as well.
Mate In 5
 (= 9+9 )
The point is that 1... Nh6 leads to a White rook promotion, and that Nf5/e6 leads to a White bishop promotion.
Does anyone know of any more examples like this in directmates, in which a Black piece's movements result in changed promotions? To be specific, the Black king is excluded for obvious reasons, and I am interested in ones that involve pins like mine. Interesting examples without pins are also welcome since they are sure to be far more common.
Note-I do have another mate in 5 with the idea that doesn't have a promoted piece, but I find the dual after Ne7 far more distasteful and the key is far too obvious.
 (= 7+10 )
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| (2) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Friday, Jul 10, 2020 13:09] |
Well, x8Q/x8S is easy to do even in 2# and several
variants, so R and B are the really interesting parts
(and require #3 at least). I dimly remember some
stuff by Bo Lindgren?! (I.e., Rewan, it might be
enlightening to search "Allumwandlung" on PDB, although
much filtering is needed.)
Also, any Babson fits the bill :-)
Hauke
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| (3) Posted by James Malcom [Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 01:46] |
Hauke, Babsons don't count since White's promotion choices are determined by a pawn, not a piece.
And underpromotions are indeed the most interesting combinations. Here's a B and N one that I managed to cobble together.
Mate In 4
 (= 9+11 )
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| (4) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 04:13] |
This is a good task: fresh design space and a bit easier than Babson
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| (5) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 11:22] |
Rewan, great idea! But any Indian is sad when you deprive
him of his critical move :-)
Here is a version of your idea that at least works with
a critical move as key (I needed a whole hour - since it isn't 2# :-)
 (= 10+11 )
1.Rh7! etc.
The execution still lacks severely, and I don't even mean
the 3 bR. I strongly encourage you to try out several
matrices (S or B of Black, the king doesn't actually have
to protect it, the mate when Black pushed his tempo
prematurely, etc.)
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| (6) Posted by shankar ram [Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 12:07]; edited by shankar ram [20-07-11] |
There is a famous #5 by W.J.Wood, showing similar play(unpins and battery mates), but with a full pickaninny and white AUW!
No. P1064925 in the PDB Database:
Walter John Wood
Morning Post 1916
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| (7) Posted by Frank Richter [Sunday, Jul 12, 2020 16:56] |
P1037455
Fritz af Geyerstam
5144 Deutsche Schachzeitung , p. 293, 09/1882
 (= 12+10 )
(12+10) C+
#4
1. Te8! droht 2. Lxc3+ Kf7 3. g8=D#
1. ... c2+ 2. Kc1 bxa5 3. g8=T Kf7 4. Tf5#
2. ... bxc5 3. g8=L Kg5 4. Ld8#
1. ... Lc2+ 2. Ke1 bxa5 3. g8=D ... 4. Te6#
1. ... bxa5 2. g8=S+ Kf7 3. Te7+ Kxg8 4. Tc8#
First AUW in direct mate, almost 140 years old (!).
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| (8) Posted by Joost de Heer [Sunday, Jul 12, 2020 22:09] |
 (= 10+4 )
M. Niemeijer
Zadachi i etyudy 11/1928
1. e7
1... b6 2. e8=Q
1... b5 2. e8=S Ke5 3. Bg3#
1... bc6 2. e8=R Kd7 3. Rd8#
1... ba6 2. e8=B Ke5 3. Bg3#
AUW after a Pickaninny.
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| (9) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Sunday, Jul 12, 2020 22:25] |
I did four different promotion by same pawn (Q/S doubled) after black selfpins. This was for wcct3. Will post later
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| (10) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Friday, Feb 18, 2022 10:03] |
In the meantime, James' original idea (plus critical move by me)
has been throroughly overworked by me.
 (= 8+12 )
#4. 1.Rd7 or Rd8? The reason is subtle, and obviously
"obviously Rd8 because of Bd7" is nonsense :-)
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| (11) Posted by Rosie Fay [Friday, Feb 18, 2022 10:56] |
There's this #3 which combines bP4 with White AUW in parallel:
Lars Larsen
Probleemblad, May-Jun 1994, no. 5318; PDB P1290552
 (= 8+3 )
#3
Solution: 1 Rf8 (thr 2 d8=Q; 2 d8=N+ Kxd6 3 Nf5#)
c6 2 d8=Q ~ 3 Re8#/Rf6#/Qe7#;
c5 2 d8=N+ Kxd6 3 Nf5#;
cxb6 2 d8=B ~ 3 Rf6#;
cxd6 2 d8=R ~ 3 Re8#
Unfortunately, the play after 1 ... c6 2 d8=Q is dualistic.
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| (12) Posted by Joost de Heer [Friday, Feb 18, 2022 11:58] |
Niemeijer (see post 8) already did an AUW (also dualistic in the queen promotion line) after the-theme-formerly-known-as-pickaninny.
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| (13) Posted by Joose Norri [Friday, Feb 18, 2022 14:43] |
According to Lindgren, his Pickaninny + AUW was the first with an undualistic Q variation: https://www.yacpdb.org/#48112
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| (14) Posted by James Malcom [Friday, Feb 18, 2022 18:19] |
I must remind everyone that these AUW's do not count per my first post. I was pondering depending on the play of Black pieces, not Black pawns.
In the meanwhile, I found a matrix for queen/rook promotion. And no, there is no castling. :)
#4
 (= 10+9 )
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| (15) Posted by Joost de Heer [Friday, Feb 18, 2022 19:09] |
Your first post only mentions 'piece'. A pawn is a piece. You apparently intended it to mean 'officer'.
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| (16) Posted by Jan Hein Verduin [Friday, Feb 18, 2022 19:13] |
Is this the sort of thing you're looking for?
W. Jörgensen
2nd prize
Skakbladet 1949
 (= 12+4 )
#3
1. b1 with AUW after four  moves.
J.O. Pedersen
1st prize
Skakbladet 1951
 (= 9+6 )
#3
1g7
AUW after four  moves.
Bo Lindgren
3rd prize Tijdschrift van de KNSB
1948
 (= 10+4 )
#3
1. h5
AUW after four  moves
In all three problems promotion already is the threat.
btw I love those figurines!
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| (17) Posted by Joost de Heer [Friday, Feb 18, 2022 19:25] |
In the Lingren composition there's no AUW after four knight moves, as 1... Sg6 2. d8=Q or 2. Bg4 is a dual.
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| (18) Posted by Jan Hein Verduin [Friday, Feb 18, 2022 19:39] |
Point taken. I now notice this problem is often reproduced with  e4 on f5. Only not in the source I took it from (Die Allumwandlung im Problemschach)
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| (19) Posted by James Malcom [Friday, Feb 18, 2022 20:16] |
Wonderful examples Jan! However, I do exclude examples, as control is simple to control them.
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| (20) Posted by Joose Norri [Friday, Feb 18, 2022 20:20] |
Is it an AUW, if the queen promotion is already a threat? Perhaps in block positions.
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