MatPlus.Net Forum General An odd claim of anticipation
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|(1) Posted by Joseph Balsamo [Thursday, Sep 15, 2011 16:23]|
An odd claim of anticipation
The following #3 is 595 in the FIDE Album 1914-44/II 1972:
Second Prize, Gazeta Polska 1937
Yacpdb 96614 gives:
Perry, William E.
St-John's Globe, 1885 [In fact the newspaper's name is St. John Globe]
Now as soon as I saw this I suspected an error of some kind. If anyone has the time and inclination to examine the 1890 Canadian anthology by Stubbs for other #3s by Perry they will probably come to a similar conclusion. As luck would have it, some years ago I had transcribed all the problems from the 1885 StJ Globe (109, including 6 by Perry). I was not surprised that no such problem could be found amongst them. It is of course hard to prove a negative other than to say the date or source is certainly wrong.
The only source for this odd attribution given in yacpdb is "Leo Mano Forsyth Collection", and I imagine this in turn is a compilation of other collections. As M. McDowell has pointed out in the past in this forum, there is number of such strange cases involving Canadian composers or publications. Can anybody provide an explanation for the Perry attribution?
|(2) Posted by Cornel Pacurar [Tuesday, Sep 20, 2011 05:45]|
Joseph - "Can anybody provide an explanation for the Perry attribution?"
As YACPDB #96614 makes reference to Leo Mano's Forsyth Collection, you should probably contact Leo Mano and ask him. By looking at Leo Mano's #per8455, I can only tell you that his source was not an English source:
[Comm1 "Clé : 1. Áé6! [2. f3 b4 3. ç7#] 1.- Êf5 2. Àh3 Êd6 3. b4# 1.- Êg4 2. Àxg3 b4 3. ç7# 1.- b"]
Joseph - "As M. McDowell has pointed out in the past in this forum, there is number of such strange cases involving Canadian composers or publications."
Let's see: Michael pointed out (http://tinyurl.com/6he2zfj) two compositions, both included in the 2000 anthology "Miniatures Canadiennes" by Alain J. Godbout. Alain clarified this more than four years ago: in one case the author made, unfortunately, a honest mistake, even though "most of the material in Miniatures Canadiennes were the result of a review of the original newspapers and publications at the collection of the National Library in Ottawa". In the other case, Alain had confirmed that John Nunn's 2nd Prize British Chess Magazine 1984-85 is indeed anticipated by William Braithwaite, Toronto Sport 1888. The fact that Braithwaite is virtually unknown outside Canada, or the fact that Toronto Sport is not mentioned in Ken Whyld's "Chess Columns: A list", or the fact that the Toronto Sport problems were only found in the microfilm archives of the National Library of Canada in Ottawa, are irrelevant.
At the same time, it is worth noting that the first original chess problems were published in (the United Province of) Canada even before the 1867 Canadian Confederation and the 1872 first meeting of the Canadian Chess Association. Here is an example from the Anglo-American Magazine, Toronto, May 1854: http://tinyurl.com/3dzoj77. The early Canadian championships had adjunct problem-composing competitions associated with them, and up to the end of the 19th century we can count more than 50 chess columns in various Canadian magazines and newspapers, with quite a few of those also publishing chess problems. In September 1885, the Brooklyn Chess Chronicle mentioned that "the total number of Chess Columns now in existence [in the United States and Canada] is 39 and 2 Chess Monthlies (http://tinyurl.com/6ens4e2). However, as the editor of Checkmate (the first Canadian chess magazine, published in the small town of Prescott, Ontario (http://www.prescott.ca) between January 1901 and September 1904 - editor J. H. Graham, problem editor Otto Wurzburg) outlined in March 1904: "In England and on the Continent the chess column is a permanent feature of current journalism. There the publishers conserve it carefully, and see that while editors may change the department is not suffered to lapse. In America is different. Here the columns owes its existence generally to the enthusiasms of some chess amateur, who assumes the duties of its management; but when the editor's ardor abates, the column ceases to exist.". There is no doubt that over the years, like everywhere, mistakes have been made, and some publications contained inaccuracies. Nevertheless, the number of proven "strange cases" of "anticipation" does not seem to me to be high enough to justify having "Canadian composers or publications" being singled out.
Joseph - "St-John's Globe, 1885 [In fact the newspaper's name is St. John Globe]"
This is an interesting topic.
For starters: absolutely, "St-John's Globe" or "St. John's Globe" are incorrect. The newspaper had nothing to do with St. John's, the capital and largest city in the Canadian province of Newfoundland and Labrador (and the oldest English-founded city in North America). At that time, St. John's was not even in Canada - Newfoundland and Labrador only became the tenth province to enter the Canadian Confederation on March 31, 1949 (as Newfoundland).
How about "St. John Globe"? Well, this may come as a surprise to many here (and sorry for stealing your thunder, Joseph): the official title of the newspaper was "Saint John Globe", and it was published in Saint John, New Brunswick (http://www.saintjohn.ca). Please see:
New Brunswick Provincial Archives: http://tinyurl.com/6ckp85f
Library and Archives Canada: http://tinyurl.com/6d2bmmf
The N. W. Ayer & Son's American Nespaper Annual, Philadelphia 1880, page 466: http://tinyurl.com/6grqgww
And the cherry on the cake, also quite important in this context: as far as I know, the chess column did not appear in the daily edition of the newspaper, but in the weekly edition, named "Saint John Weekly Globe":
New Brunswick Provincial Archives: http://tinyurl.com/5sp6gfs
Library and Archives Canada: http://tinyurl.com/6cjmmll
The column was established on March 31, 1883, and until his death in October 1907, "during most, if not all, of this period, it [was] under the capable management of Mr. C. F. Stubbs, well and favorably known as a problemist, both in quantity and quality of his work being the leading Canadian composer". Charles F. Stubbs (born in Taunton, England) was a clerk (treasurer/cashier) in the Saint John Globe office, and according to The Chess Federation of Canada (http://chess.ca/stubbs-charles) he published more than 2,750 problems between 1883 and 1907.
Then, besides St. John's Globe, why do we see St. John Globe almost everywhere, from the Brooklyn Chess Chronicle to The British Chess Magazine?! Well, the truth is that the Canadians are largely accountable for this! The City of Saint John (French: Ville de Saint John), or commonly Saint John, is (under this name) the first incorporated city in British North America (present-day Canada) - April 30 1785, shortly after the arrival of a large number of American Loyalists. However, as the years passed, citizens frequently lapsed in spelling out the name in its entirety and before long confusion arose in differentiating between the two Atlantic cities (Saint John and St. John’s), creating untold difficulty for both residents of the cities and travellers to the region. The identity problem was finally formally recognized in 1925 by both press and the local government. In January of that year the Saint John Globe carried an editorial chastising citizens for abbreviating the name, and three months later a motion was put forth requesting "all persons and corporations... to have the name of the City written or printed Saint John and not the abbreviated form St. John".
As a result, we have, for instance:
Brooklyn Chess Chronicle, May 1, 1883, page 130 (http://tinyurl.com/3u5lzom): St. John (N. B.) Weekly Globe and Weekly Globe
Brooklyn Chess Chronicle, April 15, 1884, page 101 (http://tinyurl.com/3dhle6h): St. John Globe
The British Chess Magazine, May 1884, page 217 (http://tinyurl.com/437byje): St. John Globe, N.B.
Columbia Chess Chronicle, August 13, 1887, page 53 (http://tinyurl.com/3vynztz): St. John Weekly Globe and Globe, St. John, N.B.
The British Chess Magazine, October 1887, page 403 (http://tinyurl.com/3zsm5fw): St. John Globe and Globe, St. John, N. B.
The British Chess Magazine, December 1888, page 488 (http://tinyurl.com/3qqvjnr): St. John's Globe
The Chess Journal, January 1890, page 37 (http://tinyurl.com/42u87og): St. John's Globe
C. F. Stubbs himself was inconsistent, for example in "Globe Problem and Solution Tourney No. 2" (http://www.anders.thulin.name/PDF/Stubbs_Globe_Problem_Tourney_2.pdf) we have: "Saint John WEEKLY GLOBE", "GLOBE, St. John, N.B.", "Saint John Globe" and "GLOBE".
Let's take a look at the Saint John Globe newspaper!
Saint John Globe, September 3, 1886: http://tinyurl.com/3uyhukm - At the top: "Saint John Globe.", followed by "Saint John, N.B., Friday, September 3, 1886". But at a closer look we also see, just below: "St. John Globe. St. John, N.B., SEPT. 3, 1886"!
Saint John Globe, November 18, 1892: http://tinyurl.com/3v4q7mu - At the top: "Saint John Globe.", followed by "Saint John, N.B., Friday, November 18, 1892". Again, at a closer look we also see, just below: "St. John Globe. St. John, N.B., NOV. 18, 1886"!
Finally, just a few more interesting related photos/post cards:
Globe Printing Office, Prince William Street, Saint John, New Brunswick, 1877: http://tinyurl.com/5rplnd9 ("St. John Globe"). The photo was taken the same year Saint John was devasted by the Great Fire (http://tinyurl.com/6juhuot).
New Year card - Happy New Year, Saint John Globe, Saint John, New Brunswick, 1885: http://tinyurl.com/685gbuf ("Saint John Globe").
New Year card, - 1913: http://tinyurl.com/3dvkq4q ("Saint John Globe", "St. John Globe").
New Year card - Compliments from Saint John Globe Carrier, Saint John, New Brunswick, January 1, 1922: http://tinyurl.com/6xjedgn ("Saint John Globe", and motivating text!).
Hope this helps!
|(3) Posted by Joseph Balsamo [Tuesday, Sep 20, 2011 14:52]|
If you have no information regarding my question, as you obviously don't, could you please refrain from answering with reams of irrelevancies, thus possibly giving the impression to other readers that the question has been answered?
As you could deduce from my post, I have worked through more than one year of microfilm of the St. John Globe and there is no information on the title or alternative editions of the paper that is new to me or would be of interest to me at the moment. In particular, whether the standard abbreviation for "Saint" is used and or liked has not the slightest bearing on the question whether Perry ever published a FIDE Album problem 50 years before its time. A single tinyurl would be quite sufficient to answer that question, but it would have to contain the Globe column with Perry's diagram.
|(4) Posted by Cornel Pacurar [Tuesday, Sep 20, 2011 17:40]|
You are very welcome, and good luck with your searches! Hopefully my post may interest other readers, so luckily I did not waste my time trying to clarify a thing or two. Please feel free to share your most accurate and relevant findings - users of this forum are encouraged to not only ask questions, but perhaps to share information with others.
|(5) Posted by Leo Mano [Tuesday, Sep 20, 2011 18:42]|
About the #3 (Perry?), the file source was "PERRY.PBM" found in internet at 2002. Today, I don't know in what site it was but I have the original PBM file yet.
|(6) Posted by Cornel Pacurar [Tuesday, Sep 20, 2011 19:27]|
@ Leo Mano:
Maybe from here: http://problemiste.pagesperso-orange.fr/collecto.html ?.. However, your .pbm is different - "St-John's Globe 1885" is missing from the Problemist collection above, but I can see it in your .pbm (added in September 2000). The collection seems to have been compiled by Alain J. Godbout.
|(7) Posted by Dan Meinking [Tuesday, Sep 20, 2011 23:54]; edited by Dan Meinking [11-09-20]|
Personally I like to see details and references, although Cornel's initial reply requires more than one sitting to absorb. :-)
Dumb question: I downloaded "7zip" software to open the *.rar file, which led me to the imbedded *.pbm file. What do I need to open the *.pbm file?
|(8) Posted by Leo Mano [Wednesday, Sep 21, 2011 00:02]|
I'm not sure about the site. Any way, I will remove this item from my FEN file.
|(9) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Wednesday, Sep 21, 2011 01:23]|
@ Joseph Balsamo :
some questions about your post :
1) You say that you checked microfilms of the newspaper, so it's a first hand information : the source given is wrong !
so why are you so cautious in the formulation you use ?
2) I agree with you about the style of the problem, it does not seem to have been done before 1900. In any case, the problem 'as is' has no source and has to be removed from any database.
3) you say :"... As M. McDowell has pointed out in the past in this forum, there is number of such strange cases involving Canadian composers or publications. Can anybody provide an explanation for the Perry attribution?..."
Do you mean that you think of an intentional mistake ???
4) About the post of Cornel : it was for me, at least, most interesting to read it, even if it does not answer your questions, it is still amazing to see all that can be afforded only with internet sources.
5) is there any possibility to have the chess column of this newspaper available on the net ?
for your information :
1) I checked in wchloe and did not find the litigious problem. The reason seems to be that C. Poisson did not copy problems from other databases (I think so)
2) I checked in the Kotesovec site http://web.iol.cz/vaclav.kotesovec/ it is a huge collection of available sources. I did not find any answer (but it does not mean a lot)
|(10) Posted by Anders Thulin [Sunday, Sep 25, 2011 19:26]; edited by Anders Thulin [11-09-25]|
Dan Meinking asked:
> I downloaded "7zip" software to open the *.rar file, which led me to the imbedded *.pbm file. What do I need to open the *.pbm file?
That is a Problemist file, and you need a copy of that program to examine it closer (or a program that knows how to deal with it --
I think some problem database programs can do so.) It seems that http://problemiste.pagesperso-orange.fr/ is the current
site for it.
It should be noted that some of the available .pbm files are of uneven quality, so while they may be useful as starting points
for locating a problem and a source, they should not be treated as authoritative unless you have good reasons for doing so.
Added: While I can't cite an internet source for S:t John Globe, I find that Jacques N. Pope's website seems relatively unknown.
See http://www.chessarch.com/excavations/excavations.php for work-in-progress of getting several old US chess columns on-line.
|(11) Posted by Dan Meinking [Tuesday, Sep 27, 2011 10:19]|
Thank you, Anders!
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MatPlus.Net Forum General An odd claim of anticipation